The fate of Stygian Belts ....

What does everyone think will happen post league as far as abyss and more specifically stygian vises being incorporated into the core game?

unquestionably the best belt base in the game rendering all mirror belts sub mirror value immediately.... and to take it even further, shaped and elder versions making all non shaped/elder versions not worthy of being mirror'd imo at least

how does GGG retract this item (if they do) or how do they make non stygians worth even identifying?

We don't know yet but they never retract anything since who cares about standard. They might make abysses unavailable or very rare, like talismans.

The mechanic will be relegated to a map mod, as is the fate of most league gimmicks these days.

^^ Maybe a map mod, which would make stygians the only belt to use i guess

It is similar to what talismans brought to the game however talismans dropped corrupted so you could never reroll them (if you could craft talismans they would replace all ammys too)

I feel like you can infer some of GGG’s design philosophy from their approach to races. There’s the Turmoil version which is kinda cool but kept in check so that stuff can stick around. Then you have Mayhem which is done for fun at the time, but stuff goes away afterwards.

Both Talismans and Breach Rings dropped corrupted, which suggested that GGG were trying to limit their potential - something you’d do if they might stick around in some fashion and they have to carve out their own niche in the game instead of invalidating every other item for their respective slots. I feel the need to draw a distinction here - I’m not holding them up as being perfectly balanced. I’m saying that there was an effort made, which I think is meaningful in and of itself.

GGG has admitted that Abyss drew heavy inspiration from Breach League - and I’d speculate that this is a factor. The core game has a lot of echoes of previous challenge leagues crammed in various places, and one wonders whether there is room for both Breach and Abyss long-term. They’re obviously occupying overlapping design space. In context of that when you look at just how powerful Stygian Vises and Abyssal Jewels are and that they aren’t dropping corrupted and that every Stygian Vise drops as a rare item... where’s the intention to balance... well, anything?

Right from the get-go, Abyss has felt like a Mayhem to me. The league will be fun while it lasts, but I don’t believe it’s staying - after Harbinger was widely considered underwhelming, I think they decided to do Breach 2.0 and purposefully design it as a temporary thing, so that it can be as interesting as possible without concerns of long-term game balance holding it back.

I reckon Stygian Vises and Abyssal Jewels will be dumped into Standard and forgotten.

Remember how Abyss League is bugged and they didn’t bother to fix it properly? Bit weird if they plan to roll it into the core game. But if they don’t? Not very economical to bother fixing Abyss this late in its lifespan if you know it’ll never be seen again. That’s just poor time management.

Everything I refer to is, at best, circumstantial evidence - a lot of it probably wouldn’t even qualify as that. But you have to admit there sure is a lot of it. Consistent with past behaviour, explains their current behaviour, explains discrepancies in league design.

All I can say is the Great White Beast is probably furiously trying to think up ways to convince GGG to put Stygian Vises and Abyssal jewels into core game. She probably has a chart on the wall of her cave noting the number of days since someone tried to kill her, like a workplace incident report. I imagine that number is quite high now.

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_Saranghaeyo_ wrote:

The fuck, lol. People who've accomplished nothing taking shots at Standard for no reason.

But standard is standard. That's all the reason they need. Standard? LOL. Stand-dud amirite.

(OTOH standard can't help being standard so it's a pretty shitty reason.)

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Sarno wrote:

I feel like you can infer some of GGG’s design philosophy from their approach to races. There’s the Turmoil version which is kinda cool but kept in check so that stuff can stick around. Then you have Mayhem which is done for fun at the time, but stuff goes away afterwards.

Both Talismans and Breach Rings dropped corrupted, which suggested that GGG were trying to limit their potential - something you’d do if they might stick around in some fashion and they have to carve out their own niche in the game instead of invalidating every other item for their respective slots. I feel the need to draw a distinction here - I’m not holding them up as being perfectly balanced. I’m saying that there was an effort made, which I think is meaningful in and of itself.

GGG has admitted that Abyss drew heavy inspiration from Breach League - and I’d speculate that this is a factor. The core game has a lot of echoes of previous challenge leagues crammed in various places, and one wonders whether there is room for both Breach and Abyss long-term. They’re obviously occupying overlapping design space. In context of that when you look at just how powerful Stygian Vises and Abyssal Jewels are and that they aren’t dropping corrupted and that every Stygian Vise drops as a rare item... where’s the intention to balance... well, anything?

Right from the get-go, Abyss has felt like a Mayhem to me. The league will be fun while it lasts, but I don’t believe it’s staying - after Harbinger was widely considered underwhelming, I think they decided to do Breach 2.0 and purposefully design it as a temporary thing, so that it can be as interesting as possible without concerns of long-term game balance holding it back.

I reckon Stygian Vises and Abyssal Jewels will be dumped into Standard and forgotten.

Remember how Abyss League is bugged and they didn’t bother to fix it properly? Bit weird if they plan to roll it into the core game. But if they don’t? Not very economical to bother fixing Abyss this late in its lifespan if you know it’ll never be seen again. That’s just poor time management.

Everything I refer to is, at best, circumstantial evidence - a lot of it probably wouldn’t even qualify as that. But you have to admit there sure is a lot of it. Consistent with past behaviour, explains their current behaviour, explains discrepancies in league design.

while i agree with just about everything here, stygians and abyssal jewels will not be forgotten in std, they will be the go-to end game items unquestionably.... they are simply too powerful to be forgotten.... i can guess that there will be a massive market for these bases for std regulars to craft and mirror etc

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D3izhistory wrote:

while i agree with just about everything here, stygians and abyssal jewels will not be forgotten in std, they will be the go-to end game items unquestionably.... they are simply too powerful to be forgotten.... i can guess that there will be a massive market for these bases for std regulars to craft and mirror etc

That’s... not what’s I meant. I wasn’t commenting on whether people in Standard would use them. I meant they’ll never be seen again outside of Standard. Maybe people will pay to have Divination Cards done for them or something, but that’s about it I’d reckon.

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Sarno wrote:

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D3izhistory wrote:

while i agree with just about everything here, stygians and abyssal jewels will not be forgotten in std, they will be the go-to end game items unquestionably.... they are simply too powerful to be forgotten.... i can guess that there will be a massive market for these bases for std regulars to craft and mirror etc

That’s... not what’s I meant. I wasn’t commenting on whether people in Standard would use them. I meant they’ll never be seen again outside of Standard. Maybe people will pay to have Divination Cards done for them or something, but that’s about it I’d reckon.

gotcha, i know your saying it is speculation based upon past behavior from GGG, but even zana mods never including abyss? sounds harsh