An overview of Abyss league.

What a rant. Like a compilation of every spoiled whine from these forums. Well, feedback is feedback.
Points on which i can agree, guild halls would be cool, interface can be allways improved, game is too fast, they need to do something with hideouts. Almost everything else is laughable, blaming arpg for rng in it, lol. I hope GGG will buff bosses, nerf droprates and will not alter maps - this league it was actually requiring effort and therefore fun to climb Atlas. Partyplay will be forever pointless as long as singleplayer is not penalized as in mmorpg. People just play differently, different builds, different pace. Controlling where your mate are going is annoying and forever will be, except when bunch of metaslaves are rushing shaped straight line. That is why majority of people just talking with friends about stuff happening and not actually trying to do it together. You need different game to play with someone, any kind of buffs to PoE multiplayer will not change that.

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

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Miská wrote:

If you invest enough (Wich is easily returned in drops) maps still drop like candy.

Bullshit and lie.
No matter how much you invest, in average, over long run, you lose far more currency on buying/rolling high-level, than you get from drops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok69NX0QB9c

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Grauthrim wrote:

Currently I think the game is far too fast, there are too many features that happen almost instantly with barely any kind of warning or trigger animation to follow it. Death feels like being hit with a fly swat instead of being challenging or explainable.

true, i swear these bugs that some abyss-monster throw at you attack before they even manifest through an animation. its a little thing, but it just feels so obviously cheap and unfair.
same with elder-guardians, everything is just instant fatal damage in your face and everywhere else too for good measure.

and its not just the speed, its also the amount of stuff going on. for how enjoyable abyss might be - its a mess graphically. at these caveholes you have like 3 layers of green/ brownish-area-effects going off on a green-brownish ground, you need to watch for certain rare mobs, all the same keeping an eye on your buffs/ charges/ flasks, which in the day of bigger screens and small icons cant really be done.
and you need to know all of this stuff. because it means life and death in this game in endgame. it escalates, anything can be relevant.
you will only know if a rare had "powerful crits" and "extra damage" after he hit you. you wont know from reading the line below his name.

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Player089 wrote:

It doesn't matter. You died to him multiple times because you are bad, you lacked the skill. The fight is extremly easy once you have seen it, you can get hit by pretty much everything in this fight without dying and there is almost zero overlapping. You don't need any statue to hide behind, you can dodge every single damage by just moving correctly.
The reason you died in this fight is your own lack of skill, not the design of the fight.

the "top-players" in PoE arent best at this game because of their skill. on the contrary. its fair to say that the mirror-/whatever -gear and builds of the strongest characters out there serve the sole purpose of enabling one to not having to play the game skillfully: rightclick once to delete shaper. have enough defenses to survive anything...mostly.

path of exile is NOT a skill based game. it never was. never will be.

it is just that the devs at GGG are obsessed with the idea of forcing "skill-based" stuff down our throats, when they should know best how the game is being playing by the "best" (most successful) players in empiric reality.
noone is dancing his way through labyrinth in an flamboyant display of patience, elegance and manual skill.

skillbased games are fighting games, mobas, shooters. games in which a skillful player will outplay the less skilled player consistently most of the time.
people have beaten the dark souls games naked, zero damage taken over the whole playthrough (!), with lvl1-chars. so it was entirely based on skill (and some item-exploits tbh, but still).
this simply cant be done in PoE.
i mayself have only beaten shaper by creating a character entirely dedicated to trivializing boss-fights. that character succedded, easily, to me suprise even. my other characters which required a more active play-style failed.

so dont tell new players this was a skill-based game. it is not.

some people, and the devs foremost, seem to have this absolutely nonsensical idea, that the gameplay in PoE was precisely slicing enemies apart with a scalpel while elegantly juking around them.
no. you grab a sledgehammer and run everthing over and into the ground. thats just the undisputable reality with this game, this genre even.


and even if, for the sake of the argument, it was skillbased. then get this skill-based sh*t sorted right. fix animations. have visual effects signify their amount of damage, as ANY OTHER GAME EVER does it.
give me controlls and animations of a moba, and ill be ABLE to apply my skill. but dont litter my screen with effects and enemies while im stuck with service-able, but far from precise inputs and expect me to do precision-stuff.
yes, innocences bullethell is bullsh*t, when ANYONE who played ANY videogame sees these thousands small fireballs he will think: "this will hurt, but ill make it through". the visual effect just in no way signifies instant death. which is a plain design-flaw.
the visuals and cues in this game are unreliable, cant trusted. i have been playing mobas, figthing games and mmorpgs for decades now. with the properly done ones you internalize all the cues, reactions become automatisms.
but not in PoE, not even after 4k hours. bosses simply freeze. they have no spell-rotations or internal cooldowns. visiuals downright lie to you. how many times have i died in atziri-flameblasts, goat-boss leap-slams, arbitrary random bullsh*t that i clearly wasnt standing in, at least not on my screen.

if a game is skill-based, you eventually want to play at the edge. exploit every frame, every inch.
cant do this with PoE. you got to assume that you always have to take 2 steps back rather than one. if this game wons to defeat you, it will just do that. thats plain unrealiably. thats just unfair. that doesnt honor players skill at all.

Well... it all fits rather well flavor-wise at least. You're supposed to be in this unforgiving land full of undead and worse on the one side alone with exiles with little to live for beyond revenge of being exiled.

I think it's supposed to be, essentially, exactly this way. Frustrating as fuck. From a flavor perspective. People have just been missing the flavor aspect for some time. I'd date it around the time Chris or whoever gave in and gave the loot priority option, rather than leave it solely free-for-all as it was meant to be. They've just been refining the process of making the world a darker place in other ways.

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20)The fragment tab - This should have been part of the map stash tab and only furthers my frustration with GGG as a whole. Your continual display of simple yet obvious cash grabs from the community not only expresses the lack of respect you show for us but nails it in the coffin further. -_- People have supported GGG with open arms, helped them grow to be a rather large company and it annoys me how companies seem to lose sight of what is actually important and instead follow the golden path of money and expansion. You're losing me and probably many others as customers and supporters. Please make this part of what I already paid $15 for. Fragments are MAPS. Whether you want to define them differently or not. When I use an offering to the goddess, I open a MAP. When I use Atziri fragments I open a MAP the same is said for EVERY fragment piece in the game. Where do you get the fragments from? MAPS what do I need to use to open the MAPS where I get these fragments from? OTHER MAPS. EVERYTHING IS RELATED TO MAPS IN EVERY WAY AND POSSIBLE FORM. WHY IS THIS NEEDED?! You should have just put a $25 dollar price tag on the map stash tab and left it as that! What's next.... man you've set the ball rolling with this havn't you, I guess you can say this is long term shortsight. You've created a monster in GGG itself and now it's hungry.

I agree with most but this one especially pisses me off.

Even more annoying is the introduction of quad tabs with no ability to upgrade even premium normal tabs.

What they want me to write of my 60 odd premium tabs and start again buying quads? Fuck that!!

I really must stop supporting.

I mostly agree with OP very much, although I personally have no interest in multiplayer, except perhaps on very rare occasions with a friend from real life.
I also think there have been a lot of good points in many replies.

I simply hate the fact that POE is basically trade-to-win, which ethic-wise is just pay-to-win with ingame currency.

Diablo 1 and 2 gated zero content behind any form of RNG. You could run every boss and every instance as often as you wanted. Boss fights were self explanatory, they hurt you but wouldn't one-shot you and give you a fair chance to escape and learn from it. Drop rates were fair and build diversity was kind of balanced. You could play them SSF perfectly well.
Diablo 1 actually was even better designed in terms of balance than D2. Every normal monster mattered, was dangerous, and had to be fought with tactical consideration. Class instead of mass! In both old Diablo-parts the difference between normal, rare and unique monsters was not as large as in POE and every monster made you think on how to kill it. D1 was probably too extreme in this for the average player, but tactics lovers like me still occasionally play it (especially when I'm fed up with POE and want to compare). D2 probably was the best compromise between tactics and fast playing. In POE you just one-shot all the junk mobs, and then the boss one-shots you.

Why can't GGG simply learn from Diablo 1 and 2? Why do they have to spread their RNG casino mentality all over POE like cancer? Why do they try to force us into trade-to-win? I played abyss solo and am stuck at 23 challenges because I don't buy daily missions, lich kills, identifications, maps, sextant mod or zana mod runs an so on.

POE's main focus is currency generation (to compensate the high currency consumtion) and not monster killing. You simply need giant amounts of wealth for crafting / buying / mirroring, map buying and modding. You can't solo farm enough currency for high end results, you have to keep a large shop to sell items to other players and thus make your profits. If you don't, like me, you're stuck. POE is more of a trade simulation than a hack'n'slay, and that's why the actual fighting aspects get so little attention in terms of balancing.

In economical theory, it is correct that removing currency from an economy reduces inflation. So yes, in abstract theory, making everyone pay for everything and making Zana charge 6 chaos for breach map mod should reduce inflation. But in POE reality, the opposite happened, because psychologically high and rising prices make you demand a higher income to cover your expenses and high prices make you pay even higher prices for safe goods out of fear, that tomorrow the price might be an even higher one.
A few exemplary average-player-thoughts for illustration: "What, 6 c for one lousy Zana mod? Well, I guess 6 c can't be a lot, then..." / "Look at the prices for that high-end-unique I want. Better offer my outdated middle class levelling equipment for a few c more so I can afford my unique." / "What, the ex is 120 c!? Well, I better pay that price because tomorrow, it'll be 130 c!" / "What, that guy actually paid me 120 c for my ex?! Next time I demand 130! Besides, I really need them, because I burnt all c I had at crafting attempts and got nothing out of it..."

So, by making everybody spending lots of currency, GGG makes everybody demanding even more currency and thus actually FUELS the inflation. I can't imagine they wouldn't understand that.

Why are build diversity options so massively unequal? Just to make players play the current and ever changing meta-of-the-league, so that GGG can better sell the fitting skin MTX every league? To make players invest enormous amounts of currency in top gear to maximise the current meta? To enable the most expensively equipped meta elite to make profits off boss services? To give them a wonderful feeling of superiority that makes them buy more MTX and supporter packs?

Who has an interest in ongoing inflation, in everybody paying for everything or pointlessly wasting currency and thus needing even more currency, except bot operators and illegal RMT scammers?
GGG, because they sell you the premium stash tabs required for running a large and efficient shop and storing enough + quality items to maximize your chaos recipe results. GGG, because they sell you both the map and fragment stash tabs to keep all your tradeable instances in. If you could simply click on the waypoint menu like in D2 to get to every instance without needing a consumable item for it, they couldn't sell you those stash tabs.
GGG, because they hardly have to worry about legitimate, reasonable and fair criticism like OP. GGG doesn't need to deal with OP's arguments, GGG simply can rely on some trade&meta-elite-whiteknight to condescend from his mountain of mirrors, spit us middle class critics in the face and say "git gud". And every noob reading this must think, that these two words from the mighty whiteknight totally took the value out of every single argument on OP's long list and that all criticism just comes from moronic losers or from sad old men like me stuck in their pre-millenium youth days of Diablo 1.

And that's why RNG continues to spread, why inflation continues, why map drop rates decline and why build diversity balance issues continue. I don't think it is bad design, it might just be an economic choice GGG made. Let's not forget one thing: GGG is not a few friends in a garage any more trying to build something to slap Diablo 3 in the face with. They are a multi million dollar company with 105 employees to pay.

too much text.. but PoE was much like D1/D2 a few years back. More tactical and slower paced. Also fewer players, because of this.

I'm a bit split, i like to move fast, but still consider D1 with its abysmal ms a true gem.

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xjjanie wrote:

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Grauthrim wrote:

My conclusion from all of this is that Path of Exile is a game of sharp contrasts, with absolutely amazing and astounding mechanics, systems and methods of play that clearly provide huge levels of entertainment but over a long period you begin to see the cracks, the duct tape and super glue holding the skeleton of what is a beautiful thing very much together. I hope dearly GGG continues to take steps towards making a fairer and more balanced game.

This. PoE could be so much better.

I second this.

I LOVE PoE, and been playing it since beta, on a WiFi with PC that barely ran it, and I loved it.

Now, with PC that runs it nicely and with good internet connection, I ask myself what playerbase GGG wants...

Few no lifers or lots of casuals?

When I opened this thread, I expected some kid whining that he did not get legacy Kaom's Heart in abyss league, yet I have to agree with OP on almost everything.

As a casual, who likes to play other games, I feel really frustrated that poe does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to reward casual players.

Heck! When I started playing abyss, I expected I'll never get over 15 challenges at best.
Says enough of what I expect of this game...

I'll say it: Git gud.

But more seriously, a good amount of these points are mechanics that OP doesn't like/doesn't feel fair, etc. I guess PoE just isn't the game for him and that's basically it.

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_Saranghaeyo_ wrote:

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Mezion wrote:

I'll say it: Git gud.

But more seriously, a good amount of these points are mechanics that OP doesn't like/doesn't feel fair, etc. I guess PoE just isn't the game for him and that's basically it.

Can you show me how melee players can git gud and clear faster than Kinetic Blast with the same gear investment?

There's a time to be a dick and pull the git gud card, I really don't feel this is one of them. Not that you'll change your opinion :^)

That's in 2077