Elemental ailment nerfed below the ground ??

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grepman wrote:

I kinda skimmed your post (sorry, at work right now so I will check it in depth later- again, apologize)

the indirect damage thing was if youre doing burn fire-based damage yourself you dont want immolate (RF is a good example of that, youre giving up EE for immolate)

the more multiplier point, was kind what youre saying, immolate has to add equivalent of whatever more multiplier gem adds to the base damage to be as effective. most of the time, it doesnt. sure there might be exceptions with skills that have high damage effectiveness and low base damage.
but for the most part when you get to the land of 'really high numbers' you generally are stacking more multipliers and flat damage starts to suffer unless its so high compared to base damage (at least 40% more or whatever most multipliers end up adding)

of course, theres also the conditional nature of immolate. you need an auxilary skill most of the time or chance to ignite or high crit etc. yea Im aware of oro's but oro's base damage is pretty high meaning, again, that once you dish out enough damage in the endgame its tough to beat more multipliers.

There's plenty of builds out there that like stacking flat damage. Fire is less prolific in this case than cold or lightning are, but there's always the ol' Ele Buzzsaw-style builds that shoot for maximum attack speed with a bunch of flat added damage. Immolate is a very large pile of flat added damage that buzzsaw-style builds can salivate over.

Is it a must-have damage gem for every build? No. But then again I'm kinda sick of "must-have damage gems for every build!", honestly. 'More' gems should come with strong downsides that make using them a decision, and builds which can stack a hundred of them should be rare and fiddly. I like gems like Immolate that lend themselves to certain, slightly-more-interesting playstyles or which otherwise invite you to build something different around them.

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1453R wrote:

'More' gems should come with strong downsides that make using them a decision, and builds which can stack a hundred of them should be rare and fiddly. I like gems like Immolate that lend themselves to certain, slightly-more-interesting playstyles or which otherwise invite you to build something different around them.

Yeah, I'd also like it if there were less "damage booster" support gems. Seems nowadays all interesting stuff comes from equipment, while the gem slots are only used to scale your damage.

my bad, I temporarily forgot that fire spells exist in this game :P

I was mostly thinking of Elemental Attack builds, where getting 658 base damage before slotting Immolate would be and is pretty insane

EDIT: In my case, I get an average of 69% more damage from Immolate Support at gem levels 20:


https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Added_Cold_Damage_Support
https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Immolate_Support

(71+229+169+254+205+308)/(71+229+169+254) = 1.7095
(47+158+42+89+169+254+205+308)/(47+158+42+89+169+254) = 1.6759

(70.95+67.59)/2 = 69.27

EDIT2: And notice the Fire Trap gem for when I run into "Insulated" map mods :P

EDIT3: I'm bored and i like doing math. Let's see how much More Damage lv. 20 Immolate does for:

Fireball: (739+1109+205+308)/(739+1109) = 1.2776 = 27.8% more damage, not great, but not useless either
Firestorm: (162+243+(205+308)*0.3)/(162+243) = 1.38 = 38% more damage on the dot, comparable to popular More Damage multis
Flame Surge: (514+771+205+308)/(514+771) = 1.3992 = 39.9% more damage, again comparable to popular multis
Flame Dash: (319+479+205+308)/(319+479) = 1.6429 = 64.3% more (hit) damage, but no bonus to the burning ground... on the other hand, the burning ground makes it super reliable :P
Fire Trap: (513+770+205+308)/(513+770) = 1.3998 = 40.0% more damage, but has the same "issue" and "benefit" as with Flame Dash... bit of a wash, maybe if you were building Ignite Fire Trap
Flame Totem: (122+183+(205+308)*.25)/(122+183) = 1.4205 = 42.1% more damage, not too shabby
Incinerate: (136+204+(205+308)*.3)/(136+204) = 1.4526 = 45.3% more damage, incinerate viable again? lol