Path of Building accuracy???

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ShadyC wrote:

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Shovelcut wrote:

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ShadyC wrote:

In-game tooltips are 100% accurate.

That's the funniest thing I've read today. :)

Nice quip. Really clever.

But can you show me an in-game tooltip being inaccurate?

I'll wait.

Be sure to get more quips in instead of presenting the evidence to me.

ROFL. Dude... are you trolling?

All builds utilizing any damage bonus on effect have wrong tooltips (for instance intimidate or immolate).
All builds with Doomfletch Prism or simlar items have a wrong tooltip dps.
All builds with Far shot have a wrong tooltip dps.
All builds with Point Blank have a wrong tooltip dps.
All builds with firestorm or similar skills have a wrong tooltip dps.
All skills with multiple attacks have wrong tooltip dps (for instance blast rain shows the tooltip dps for 1 blast instead of all 4).
All builds with elemental penetration have wrong tooltip dps.
All builds relying heavily on ailments have wrong tooltip dps.

In general tooltip misleading and you should ignore it as a rule of thumb (unless you know your build mechanics well!).

In general PoB is fairly accurate. However that tool also has it's mistakes (for instance immolate) and in general which conditions you assume you have available which can lead to lower actual damage than the expected damage PoB came up with.

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Wendek wrote:

If you wanted serious answers and not "quips" then you should have provided an actual link to the PoB build so that people could explain the calculations to you. But of course you don't want actual advice, you just want to rant... so pointless thread gets pointless answers.

Hey. This is his thing. Don't take it away from him ;)

What is the purpose of the tooltip? If it's purpose is to display a skills damage numbers and dps, then not having the actual numbers on the tooltip means the tooltip is useless.

Maybe it's not useless to you since you know the math involved and bother to manually calculate these things out yourself. The average player isn't going to go to that length. We're here to play a game, not do math homework.

We look at the tooltip, see the numbers aren't 'adding up' and conclude the tooltip is wrong.

You can say that it's not wrong or not inaccurate all you want to but as long as it's not displaying the information players need then it's broken.

If it can display this information for some skills but not others then it's broken.

Can't trust it unless you're a human calculator. Most of us are not. While ya'll may enjoy playing Math of Exile, the rest of us are playing Path of Exile and you absolutely should not expect us to play your version of the game.

So the fact remains, the tooltip is "inaccurate" or "wrong" for a vast majority of the players.


My 2c fwiw

Tooltip is guaranteed DPS, the level of damage the skill can absolutely, 100% for-certain KNOW it's going to do when you click Go. It doesn't factor in a lot of things because most of those things are not guaranteed (whatever someone's practical situation may be), but that's never before made it wrong. That just makes it incomplete.

Shady's pointing out that the general forum assumption seems to be that a skill's tooltip is some sort of completely random and arbitrary RNG thing that has absolutely no basis in reality when this is simply not true. Doomfletch Prism's tooltip DPS should be pretty spot-on accurate for the physical and pre-Prismod elemental damage the bow deals. Take your physical Prism DPS, multiply it by 1.1, multiply that by 3, add any applicable sources of elemental damage, then bolt that onto the original tooltip and you can get a workable approximation of the weapon's DPS.

That's sort of exactly what people did before PoB came along and spoilt everybody. Figure out what to do to their base tooltip value to get an approximation of actual DPS.

What, exactly, do you all think PoB is doing under the hood? All PoB does is finishes the calculations that one previously had to do by hand, utilizing the same base information the in-game tooltip does. If you stopped PoB partway through the process, your results would probably very eerily resemble your in-game tooltip.

EDIT::

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Shovelcut wrote:

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My 2c fwiw

What smart players say is that tooltip can't be counted on to tell the whole story. That much is true, and if your definition of 'accurate' is 'tells the entire story', then no - tooltip is not accurate for you. What tooltip does do is accurately portray in a number of cases the difference in theoretical deeps of a number of gearing decisions, as well as provide a numeric basis for further calculations.

It's information which can be quite useful to someone who knows how to make use of it...which kinda sounds like Path of Exile to a 'T', doesn't it?

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1453R wrote:

It's information which can be quite useful to someone who knows how to make use of it...which kinda sounds like Path of Exile to a 'T', doesn't it?

No, it sounds more like an excuse to not fix the tooltips. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

How does the tooltip know what the damage you're going to deal against a given enemy is before you deal it?

How does the tooltip know what level of effectiveness your Flammability aura is going to apply to enemies?

How does your tooltip know ahead of time if you're going to be Chilling enemies, so Hypothermia should be factored in?

How much resistance does your tooltip assume your enemies have, so it knows how to factor in your penetration?

How does your tooltip know exactly how many Firestorm impacts are going to hit your target before you bother Firestorming the target?

There's a reason half of PoB is "pick your enemy situation". PoB can be told to give a DPS figure based on a player-selected set of core assumptions. Unless you want the same set of checkmarks available in-game, your tooltip doesn't get the benefit of any of those assumptions. It has no idea what your build is doing, all it knows is the direct information for the specific skill it's calculating for. So it calculates what it can 105% guarantee you'll get. For a lot of skills this is actually pretty close to accurate, or at least it only takes one or two pretty easily intuitive additional calculations to get 'close to accurate'.

For your Firestorms, your Blade Vortexes/Flurries, your Storm Bursts, your other weird-behavior skills...yeah. You can ask GGG to try and create some sort of monolithic Uber-System that accurately updates your DPS in real time based on whatever enemy is closest to your cursor...

Or GGG can work on stuff that actually matters.

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1453R wrote:

Or GGG can work on stuff that actually matters.

Yep, we can agree on that. :)

Tooltips matter though. Just sayin'.

Tooltip Lives Matter

There are a couple things I'd like to see fixed about tooltip/character sheet, one of which is that some of the dang bleed chance stats don't show up on character sheet!!! it's a damn shame

"Math of Exile" made me laugh.

But mate. Don't call me a "human calculator" cuz of any of this. I graduated high school with a 2.0 GPA and have no further schooling.

I'm literally talking about... opening calculator... hitting *1.5... *1.4... *1.33... Some Ctrl C's and Ctrl V's... Et cetera, et cetera.

Like, this aint no calculus-type shit. This is barely above 1st grade level. And if you're outside NA, probably not even.

I think people just don't realize how simple it is.