Reflect in the Endgame (And more RNG problems) |Share your opinion|

In the endgame there is a crapton things that can kill you.
Sometimes it feels like "That was stupid what I did, good, I deserved that"
But sometimes you're like *Staring at the monitor* "W.. wha.. Fuck!" *Throws a keyboard out the window"

I really feel like GGG should address all of those problems at least somehow.
Repair them like they repaired volatile.

What I consider large problems:
1. Reflect (Random reflect packs kill you for no reason at 90% to lvl 98)
2. Oversized packs of outright rippy monsters (resulting in nearly unavoidable oneshots)
3. Porcupines (All of the heavy dmg in the endgame is ele-based, and than these fucks)
4. AoE map mods.

There should be an straight up "Reflect resistance" standing on it's own. Being capped at 50% for example. Or all kinds of reflect should be capped at 5% dmg reflected.
(Im aware of "reduced reflected damage taken" mods on items and the elementalist, tho they are difficult to access and integrate into builds, not mentioning they don't help that much)

Pack size of the packs of dangerous mobs, like all the long-ranged ones and the already mentioned porcupines should have a unscaleable cap.
When a 20 long-ranged monster pack attacks you with 20 attacks at once in a +100% quantity map, capped resists and 10k life won't save you, tested.

I think that phys reduction should be way more reachable and ele res a little less. Or the heavy dmg in endgame should be outright shifted to 90-95% ele.

In some maps increased AoE map mods don't make any difference, but in some it makes the boss' attacks insanely deadly. Daresso being a good example, his "ice clones" move hits you with 1-2 clones at a time. With inc AoE 3 or 4 clones can hit you at the same time, oneshoting you.
Also the godess boss' traps, when they become huge it's nearly impossible to escape in time.
Or shavronne, filling up an entire room with explosions, making them inpossible to dodge.
Tho problem is, you play the map without knowing how stuff will behave. These mods should be removed.

Pls note that the relevance of these heavily depends on the kind of builds and mainly playstyle that you prefer.
Again, that's what really grinds my gears, how uneven these problems are across the scope of builds, playstyles and player classes.

What do you think? What problems piss you off the most?

(Pls lay off the stupidass "hot topics" like vaal pact, that's stuff for a different thread.)

1) Build around reflect. You seriously have to mess up a build if it is a problem.
2) The problem is not too big packs. It's the lack of mob density. The exact opposite of what aim at. Also big packs should be a threat. And finally 1 is in 99% of the cases your own fault for making silly mistakes.
3) Porcupines. They are already nerfed. If you see a small pack it's not really a problem but if you wander aimlessly into a big pack and kill them all at once then it's dangerous. Again that's on you. You made a mistake and now your gonna pay for it. Just as it should be.
4) Then look at your map mods. They should be dangerous.

Also:

Reflect resistance already exists and is capped at 100%...lol
And reflected damage is "capped" at 20% (not really a cap but the highest amount of reflected damage on rares)
When 20 long-ranged monster attack you with 10k life and max resist you die? Usually that's the chaos damage guys from Vaal Temple. They deal chaos damage so resist doesn't help you much. Evasion on the other hand helps you a lot. Or chaos resistance. Or MoM. Or something else. Besides being a flesh"tank". Just adapt and it's no problem.

In short: Adapt and play better. Most of the "problems" you describe sounds like deaths from grinding endlessly without really paying attention to what's on the screen.

Volatile flameblood/reflect, especially in garbinger's spawns. You often can't see a thing until it's too late.

Reflect is broken itself, even with Soul of Yugul and sibyl's lament it's still possible to 1-shot yourself (as I often do). Nothing to add about volatile, especially if you play melee. If it's crowded, you can't really spot it (unless you scan every yellow mob on the screen for an hour before killing them).

Another annoying thing (not as much as the abovementioned two) are flame bearers/storm bearers/heralds of the obelisk bloodlines. They aren't THAT op, but can fuck you hard, especially heralds of the obelisk once they all stack totems in the exact same spot.

"

In short: Adapt and play better. Most of the "problems" you describe sounds like deaths from grinding endlessly without really paying attention to what's on the screen.

While I do agree with what you say about reflect, it is kinda difficult to spot a rare reflect mob without putting a cursor over them (or maybe that's just me). And sometimes it is also hard to build around reflect. As I've already mentioned, I die with sibyl's lament and reduced reflect damage pantheon having 5,3k life (quite low, I know) and capped res ofc (I deal ele dmg). It's a bit much, but still, no need to cry over that imo.

"

Frankenberry wrote:

1) Build around reflect. You seriously have to mess up a build if it is a problem.
2) The problem is not too big packs. It's the lack of mob density. The exact opposite of what aim at. Also big packs should be a threat. And finally 1 is in 99% of the cases your own fault for making silly mistakes.
3) Porcupines. They are already nerfed. If you see a small pack it's not really a problem but if you wander aimlessly into a big pack and kill them all at once then it's dangerous. Again that's on you. You made a mistake and now your gonna pay for it. Just as it should be.
4) Then look at your map mods. They should be dangerous.

Also:

Reflect resistance already exists and is capped at 100%...lol
And reflected damage is "capped" at 20% (not really a cap but the highest amount of reflected damage on rares)
When 20 long-ranged monster attack you with 10k life and max resist you die? Usually that's the chaos damage guys from Vaal Temple. They deal chaos damage so resist doesn't help you much. Evasion on the other hand helps you a lot. Or chaos resistance. Or MoM. Or something else. Besides being a flesh"tank". Just adapt and it's no problem.

In short: Adapt and play better. Most of the "problems" you describe sounds like deaths from grinding endlessly without really paying attention to what's on the screen.

The reflect res you are talking about are the "reduced Reflected Elemental Damage taken" mods, that's reduced damage taken, not resistance. Arctic armour and Rise of the phoenix work differently. Im talking about a stand-alone resistance.

You are right about adapting, I can see that. Tho, the adapting is the game requiring you to invest into stuff that remains unused most of the time. And if you didn't sacrifice 700k dps just to switch to a different class/skill it kills you. The inconsistency if these requirements that's what pisses me off.

My point being, you get extra max res and a high life pool for farming shaper, than you wanna farm maps.. and there is a single kind of monster that requires you to have high phys res just to survive killing it.
Not mentioning skills like sunder that make killing one or two at a time impossible, multistrike and alike.
(Of course, they are harmless if you playing TS, really, long-ranged)

"

Danielskiv wrote:

Volatile flameblood/reflect, especially in garbinger's spawns. You often can't see a thing until it's too late.

Reflect is broken itself, even with Soul of Yugul and sibyl's lament it's still possible to 1-shot yourself (as I often do). Nothing to add about volatile, especially if you play melee. If it's crowded, you can't really spot it (unless you scan every yellow mob on the screen for an hour before killing them).

Another annoying thing (not as much as the abovementioned two) are flame bearers/storm bearers/heralds of the obelisk bloodlines. They aren't THAT op, but can fuck you hard, especially heralds of the obelisk once they all stack totems in the exact same spot.

"

In short: Adapt and play better. Most of the "problems" you describe sounds like deaths from grinding endlessly without really paying attention to what's on the screen.

While I do agree with what you say about reflect, it is kinda difficult to spot a rare reflect mob without putting a cursor over them (or maybe that's just me). And sometimes it is also hard to build around reflect. As I've already mentioned, I die with sibyl's lament and reduced reflect damage pantheon having 5,3k life (quite low, I know) and capped res ofc (I deal ele dmg). It's a bit much, but still, no need to cry over that imo.

Obelisks aren't a prob if you have good aoe, most builds do. And barers are ok as long as you don't lag.
I must agree tho, both are still rather unreasonable and discriminate many kinds of builds and players.
Again, they should not be removed, just adapted.

And ye, the reflect packs are the dick move of the freaking century.

"

Danielskiv wrote:

Volatile flameblood/reflect, especially in garbinger's spawns. You often can't see a thing until it's too late.

Reflect is broken itself, even with Soul of Yugul and sibyl's lament it's still possible to 1-shot yourself (as I often do). Nothing to add about volatile, especially if you play melee. If it's crowded, you can't really spot it (unless you scan every yellow mob on the screen for an hour before killing them).

Another annoying thing (not as much as the abovementioned two) are flame bearers/storm bearers/heralds of the obelisk bloodlines. They aren't THAT op, but can fuck you hard, especially heralds of the obelisk once they all stack totems in the exact same spot.

"

In short: Adapt and play better. Most of the "problems" you describe sounds like deaths from grinding endlessly without really paying attention to what's on the screen.

While I do agree with what you say about reflect, it is kinda difficult to spot a rare reflect mob without putting a cursor over them (or maybe that's just me). And sometimes it is also hard to build around reflect. As I've already mentioned, I die with sibyl's lament and reduced reflect damage pantheon having 5,3k life (quite low, I know) and capped res ofc (I deal ele dmg). It's a bit much, but still, no need to cry over that imo.

My build from this league was a Lioneye's Bow (cannot evade reflect) and dealing 100% elemental damage. Reflect was a total non-issue, even without Sibyl's Lament.

Currently 20% of your total damage is reflected. Capped resistances is cool but why stop there? Vinktar / Dying Sun / Taste of Hate all grant you +6 max resistance which is huge when it comes to mitigate elemental reflect (provided you deal 1 type of elemental damage and not several such as with a Doomfletch Prism build in which case you you should most likely use Sibyl's Lament).

The marginal benefit for each +1 max resistance increases. So instance the total damage mitigation from +1 max resistance is 1/25. If you gain another it becomes 1/24. Another 1/23 and so on. Same goes for reflected damage reduction. So Sibyl's lament is fairly decent on it's own granted you 40% reduction. However if you combine it with other sources such as Slayer / Elementalist / Scion Ascendant / Yugul Pantheon / Primeval Force it becomes even better.

So let's say I crit a monster for 200k damage in 1 hit and I have no Sibyl, Primeval force, Yugul and +7 max cold resist (taste of hate being pathfinder).

You would then hit yourself for:

200.000 x 0,2 (20% reflected) x 0,18 (resistance is now 82%) x 0,65 (Yugul + Primeval Force) = 4680.
If you add Sibyl's Lament it becomes
200.000 x 0,2 (20% reflected) x 0,18 (resistance is now 82%) x 0,25 (Yugul + Primeval Force + Sibyl's Lament) = 1800.

If you have Vaal Pact reflect should now be a non-issue. Also bear in mind that a crit of 200.000 after monster resistances is quite high.

As for Volatile's: I haven't died to it since 3.0 and it was the #1 thing that killed before 3.0. I really like the changes because it's 100% your own fault if you get hit by it now. It's works much like bearers now. It can kill you but you shouldn't blame anything / anyone but yourself if it happens (I know I don't. I died at lvl 99 to bearers this league and it felt annoying but that's part of the game. You make a silly mistake and get punished).

"

BigFatCaeZZar wrote:

The reflect res you are talking about are the "reduced Reflected Elemental Damage taken" mods, that's reduced damage taken, not resistance. Arctic armour and Rise of the phoenix work differently. Im talking about a stand-alone resistance.

reduced Reflected Elemental Damage taken might have a different name than "resistance" but it works in a similar way and works differently from other sources in the that reduces damage taken because they reduce the damage by a flat number and a % of the total damage.

Rise of the Phoenix also works in this way while Arctic Armor does not (Arctic armour is a multiplier added at the very end and is not added together with any other sources).

So in all but name you already have your reflected damage resistance. Also if you want to read my post above. Examples show how to easily mitigate reflected damage to a point where it becomes a non-issue.

Forgot to mention Primeval Force on top of that + Taste of Hate*

I'm playing a Blade Flurry with like 90% ele convert (all 3 types of ele damage), but I one-shot myself on reflect mobs nevertheless with Primeval Force, Taste of Hate, Sibyl's Lament and Soul of Yugul. This is like a punishment for having too high dps I assume.

I'm not crying over that though, nor do I believe that the bloodline mods I've brought up ought to be removed/reworked. Just shared my observations (although sometimes insta-gib is unavoidable in dungeon maps such as Torture Chamber as a melee character, when your movement is "slightly" limited).

Apart for one thing: reflect rare mobs in a pack should be recognised more easily, not just by cursoring them. I do not mind dying due to my own foolishness, but I can't stand dying out of the blue, then noticing after a short while there was a reflect mofo that went unnoticed.

Reflect should have been left for bosses only, like Atziri. It can be terribly impossible at times to even see the rings around the rare mobs, then you have ranged characters that can run into them off screen and die. 100% stupid. You should not have to wear stupid items on a character for clearing maps and normal mobs, however bosses could require them or other mitigation ways to survive reflect mods.

"

Danielskiv wrote:

Forgot to mention Primeval Force on top of that + Taste of Hate*

I'm playing a Blade Flurry with like 90% ele convert (all 3 types of ele damage), but I one-shot myself on reflect mobs nevertheless with Primeval Force, Taste of Hate, Sibyl's Lament and Soul of Yugul. This is like a punishment for having too high dps I assume.

I'm not crying over that though, nor do I believe that the bloodline mods I've brought up ought to be removed/reworked. Just shared my observations (although sometimes insta-gib is unavoidable in dungeon maps such as Torture Chamber as a melee character, when your movement is "slightly" limited).

Apart for one thing: reflect rare mobs in a pack should be recognised more easily, not just by cursoring them. I do not mind dying due to my own foolishness, but I can't stand dying out of the blue, then noticing after a short while there was a reflect mofo that went unnoticed.

In general unless there is a good reason for it try to avoid splitting your damage source into several ones or it cannot be avoided.

You should redo a few things.

1) Throw away Ruthless blows. That thing is a suicidal unless you mitigate reflect heavily and it has 0 benefits to your build. Instead use damage on full life or some other more multiplier that more stable (or lightning pen - see below).

2) Throw away cold conversion and use the Vinktar convert version. Go for 100% lightning conversion. This way lightning penetration also becomes much better and penetration is kind of important ;) Either throw out Atziri or Taste of Hate.

3) Belt of the deceiver is not really a good choice for you. The intimidate debuff only works on mobs that very close and a well rolled leather belt with life and high % elemental damage would grant the more survivability.

4) the 6-12 flat phys dmg on your ring and boots doesn't matter at all since your flat damage is already quite high. So throw away those and get a real ring / real boots. That should also it easier for you to remove the +30 INT node and gain Constitution. If you cannot find a good int ring remember boots can be enchanted with int or use Primal Spirit + a ring with all attributes instead of druidid rites.

5) Glove discussion: The lvl 12 curse is not very efficient against Shaper / other endgame bosses. Consider throwing them away for another pair. For instance a rare pair with 350+ accuracy, life and room for attack speed enchant wouldn't be too shabby. Especially if you bother using a Lab glove enchant (these are quite underrated). It doesn't in itself make reflect easier for you but it does easy things up a lot for requirements in the other item slots.

6) Diamond Flask - This grants you more dps than the Atziri one. You could consider having a diamond flask instead of Atziri since you will now have life leech from Vinktar.

If you do all or some of these things your character should gain more damage, more survivability, more reflect tankiness.