Is RF actually the fastest build out there for mapping?

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Nephalim wrote:

RF even if was somehow the fastest exp/loot per hour seems like the most dull thing to play. You do not make any action besides walking and clicking on loot. IT's on par with totems with dullness.

RF can be played by so many build variations its pretty silly to generalize this.
ever play cyclone RF?

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grepman wrote:

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Nephalim wrote:

RF even if was somehow the fastest exp/loot per hour seems like the most dull thing to play. You do not make any action besides walking and clicking on loot. IT's on par with totems with dullness.

RF can be played by so many build variations its pretty silly to generalize this.
ever play cyclone RF?

oh my god, cyclone's crippleware on movespeed makes it so painful to play.

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Nephalim wrote:

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grepman wrote:

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Nephalim wrote:

RF even if was somehow the fastest exp/loot per hour seems like the most dull thing to play. You do not make any action besides walking and clicking on loot. IT's on par with totems with dullness.

RF can be played by so many build variations its pretty silly to generalize this.
ever play cyclone RF?

oh my god, cyclone's crippleware on movespeed makes it so painful to play.

your dislike of the playstyle doesnt mean that such playstyle is not available and that you can generalize based only on what you consider viable and ignore such playstyles.

you have a contradiction there.

I'm not saying RF and or cyclone is not viable, they obviously are, I'm just saying its subjectively dull.

no, you said RF build all you do is walk and click loot. which isnt true for cyclone, for example.

Perfect timing to advertise my build :p.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2008723

Can shoot while moving, or while picking up loot. And runs at up to 145% movespeed. Only problem you might find is "ding... offscreen again, which side is it this time?"

Similar to afk gone balls, except since it went balls it has to stop to cast magma balls.

And yeah, for more meta build wander (maybe bow too haven't seen much lately) beat rf all day long. RF aoe is tiny, takes a while to clear a screen, you might have to do like 4 bands to clear the screen, while wander stays in the middle and press 1 button to insta clear. RF doesn't scale that well in late game (i've played it start of 3.0...), while top wander are scary, and with the movespeed you can pick up loot twice faster than rf.

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grepman wrote:

no, you said RF build all you do is walk and click loot. which isnt true for cyclone, for example.

I find both very dull.

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Nephalim wrote:

Wanderp is the biggest sheeple build in recent history and what's funny is that it is so delicate and expensive that most of the people attempting to do are left with a broken build and wasted currency.
It is on par with people trying to do harbinger bows + signal shot builds during the es meta in terms of success rate.

There is nothing wands can do that bows can't do just as well for far less the cost and mental investment at least on a temp league where ridiculous mirrored and legacy items are not readily available.

I'm sorry but this is completely false in so many ways. I would like to remind you that Lycosidae exists, with this beefy hunk of an item in the game, bows stand literally no chance against wands for any sort of budget build for damage. Even in the high end space, bows are still relatively slow and clunky, even if you can one shot every pack in top maps, your mobility will be nowhere near that of a min-maxed QoTF wander who is clearing 2 screens ahead with one click with KB/VPS which is by far a better trash clear skill than any bow skill.

There is some false notion in this community that all wanders are "expensive". Pound for pound per investment, wanders are much cheaper than a bow build for higher content if you build properly. A wander with an attack Vinktars/pen Vinktars, stun mitigation, Lycosidae, a piscators and any old 6L can clear faster than any bow build with a similar budget (Let's say 5EX if you vastly overpaid for everything to make it somewhat fair). No competition on clear speed. "Safety" is another issue but if you are min-maxed on a wanderfinder you will be probably running 2 defensive flasks + insane evasion from QoTF anyway, it is probably a better option to push entropy to the limit albeit with less life. The difference between 5k and 6K life with minimal mitigation or incoming damage conversion is highly negligible in high level areas.

On the high end, if your rares are good enough you can do shaper on a 5L without the +2 enchantment.. Min-maxed you can do Guardians with Barrage on 4L Hysteria gloves.. A 6L is preferred for 2x VPS setups for clearing everything t15 and below, not damage. Then if you get to the point where you can run HH + Esh's mirror? Forget it. Mirror the 3x flat damage wand in HSC on top of this? Cya later, don't even need/want to run wrath for everything non-shaper...

I'm sure you will get offended at this post, but your info is very misleading and comparing a wander to an ES Signal Shot build is pretty asinine in terms of gearing. The requirements are not even in the same universe.

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I'm sure you will get offended at this post, but your info is very misleading and comparing a wander to an ES Signal Shot build is pretty asinine in terms of gearing. The requirements are not even in the same universe.

I'm baffled why you think I would be offended at a well constructed reply void of personal attacks. Do you have some sort of pre conception about me personally or an overall low opinion of others? It is possible to disagree with someone without being offended.

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wanders are much cheaper than a bow build for higher content if you build properly. A wander with an attack Vinktars/pen Vinktars, stun mitigation, Lycosidae, a piscators and any old 6L can clear faster than any bow build with a similar budget (Let's say 5EX if you vastly overpaid for everything to make it somewhat fair)

If you really think that list + the associated rares is 5 exalts is enough to do end game content then, then yes, wanders are the best and most cost effective build in the game.

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No competition on clear speed. "Safety" is another issue but if you are min-maxed on a wanderfinder you will be probably running 2 defensive flasks + insane evasion from QoTF anyway, it is probably a better option to push entropy to the limit albeit with less life. The difference between 5k and 6K life with minimal mitigation or incoming damage conversion is highly negligible in high level areas.

Nothing bows can not also do....they were doing QOTF before wands become FOTM. They can also reach high life totals using koams and using a tempest of essence glove for LA and still have a 6 link for barrage.

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On the high end, if your rares are good enough you can do shaper on a 5L without the +2 enchantment.. Min-maxed you can do Guardians with Barrage on 4L Hysteria gloves.. A 6L is preferred for 2x VPS setups for clearing everything t15 and below, not damage. Then if you get to the point where you can run HH + Esh's mirror? Forget it. Mirror the 3x flat damage wand in HSC on top of this? Cya later, don't even need/want to run wrath for everything non-shaper...

Can you post a video of a wand build with a 5L without +2 barrage enchant and 4L hysteria gloves doing guardians? Esh is a terrible item, I'm confused why this would even be suggested.

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joebagz wrote:

I'm sorry but this is completely false in so many ways. I would like to remind you that Lycosidae exists, with this beefy hunk of an item in the game, bows stand literally no chance against wands for any sort of budget build for damage. Even in the high end space, bows are still relatively slow and clunky, even if you can one shot every pack in top maps, your mobility will be nowhere near that of a min-maxed QoTF wander who is clearing 2 screens ahead with one click with KB/VPS which is by far a better trash clear skill than any bow skill.

I was doing guardians on a 90c budget with my bow build (ofc the bow jewel was still cheap early on), early into the league, let me remind you, that Lioneye's glare is a very powerful thing, even more since they added Far shot to it.

Can't comment much on the movespeed, as the build I run is low on it because of the ascendancy choice, but a pathfinder/raider would be way faster, which is an option for people who play bow builds, same for QotF.

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joebagz wrote:

There is some false notion in this community that all wanders are "expensive". Pound for pound per investment, wanders are much cheaper than a bow build for higher content if you build properly. A wander with an attack Vinktars/pen Vinktars, stun mitigation, Lycosidae, a piscators and any old 6L can clear faster than any bow build with a similar budget (Let's say 5EX if you vastly overpaid for everything to make it somewhat fair). No competition on clear speed. "Safety" is another issue but if you are min-maxed on a wanderfinder you will be probably running 2 defensive flasks + insane evasion from QoTF anyway, it is probably a better option to push entropy to the limit albeit with less life. The difference between 5k and 6K life with minimal mitigation or incoming damage conversion is highly negligible in high level areas.

Wanders were always made for trash clearing, so they are expected to be good at it.

Difference between 5k and 6k is that, volatiles on T15-16 maps hit for almost 6k, how do I know it? I have a bit more, than 6k life and I can barely, but facetank them.

Also wanders are forced to use offensive auras, while you are not that pressured to do that on bow builds.

A bow build on a 5 ex budget can facetank pretty much everything, opposed to their squishy friends, the wanders.

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joebagz wrote:

On the high end, if your rares are good enough you can do shaper on a 5L without the +2 enchantment.. Min-maxed you can do Guardians with Barrage on 4L Hysteria gloves.. A 6L is preferred for 2x VPS setups for clearing everything t15 and below, not damage. Then if you get to the point where you can run HH + Esh's mirror? Forget it. Mirror the 3x flat damage wand in HSC on top of this? Cya later, don't even need/want to run wrath for everything non-shaper...

For the price of a barrage enchant you could buy a 6link chest, especially if it is on an eva base helmet (costs more, 20-30 exalts alone).
But I don't really think you can melt guardians that fast, especially since you are playing an elemental build with mixed eledmg scaling, that's hard to get pen for.