[Sept 18] Difficulty and Level Progression

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gh0un wrote:

Just leave it guys, everytime i look into this thread it is sickness who posted last (the same argument for the 100th time), its obvious he wants the last word on the matter.

Leave him the last word knowing that the idea is shit and wont be implemented anyways and move on.

Instead of trolling, why don't you explain what you mean by "double the amount of time" if it's not "twice as much time".

Or why you miss out on 83% of the game if you only play solo.

You think you are clever, but alas you are nothing but a forum troll.

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Sickness wrote:

What do you even mean by that? It will still be the same game, just a more appropriate difficulty (if you find normal too easy and prefer it more challenging). What is the downside?

Well what you propose is stupid.

You want:
-harder enemies to make the game harder
-more/better loot to make the game easier
-more experience to make the game easier

That's a contradiction.

If you realy want to play the game on a harder difficulty that's fine. I've no problem with that. Wanting more loot and more experience as a reward is however stupid.

By the way there is an easier way to make the game harder. It's called the passice skill tree.

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overpowdered wrote:

Well what you propose is stupid.

You want:
-harder enemies to make the game harder
-more/better loot to make the game easier
-more experience to make the game easier

That's a contradiction.

The harder enemies can more than make up for the extra loot and experience.

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overpowdered wrote:

If you realy want to play the game on a harder difficulty that's fine. I've no problem with that. Wanting more loot and more experience as a reward is however stupid.

There is nothing stupid about it. Effort should give the appropriate reward. To call that fundamental idea stupid is rather silly.

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overpowdered wrote:

By the way there is an easier way to make the game harder. It's called the passice skill tree.

The point is not only to make the game harder. Making the game harder is extremely easy, just crank up monster stat or tune down player stats.
The problem with that is that not all players want the game to be harder than it is now.

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Sickness wrote:

There is nothing stupid about it. Effort should give the appropriate reward. To call that fundamental idea stupid is rather silly.

You realy don't get it??

More loot ->Easier Game ->Less Effort
->YOU don't DESERVE the loot because the game is NOT HARD.

We may talk about extra experience to reward you for the extra time it took you to kill something, but extra loot is simply stupid.

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overpowdered wrote:

You realy don't get it??

More loot ->Easier Game ->Less Effort
->YOU don't DESERVE the loot because the game is NOT HARD.

No, it's you who don't get it.

More loot makes the game easier.
Harder mobs makes the game harder.
Those are controled varaibles that GGG can EASILY set to make sure that the extra loot does not reduce the difficulty more than the harder mobs is increasing the diffiuclity.

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overpowdered wrote:

We may talk about extra experience to reward you for the time it took you longer to kill something, but extra loot is simply stupid.

Why is loot any different??? If it takes longer to kill something, that affects loot in the same way as experience. How can you not see this?

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Sickness wrote:

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overpowdered wrote:

You realy don't get it??

More loot ->Easier Game ->Less Effort
->YOU don't DESERVE the loot because the game is NOT HARD.

No, it's you who don't get it.

More loot makes the game easier.
Harder mobs makes the game harder.
Those are controled varaibles that GGG can EASILY set to make sure that the extra loot does not reduce the difficulty more than the harder mobs is increasing the diffiuclity.

You still have to tell my why it is necessary to increase the loot. Obviously it is easier to change ONE varible, the difficulty, than TWO variables, the difficulty AND the loot.

I can't see any reason right now that justifies the extra work to achieve the same goal: a harder game.

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Why is loot any different??? If it takes longer to kill something, that affects loot in the same way as experience. How can you not see this?

So you do agree that harder enemies affect experience and loot but you disagree that YOU WANTED THIS?? You made the enemies harder to make the game harder. Now nerfing the difficulty by increasing the amount of loot you get at the same time is obviously stupid.

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overpowdered wrote:

You still have to tell my why it is neccesary to implent better loot. Obviously it is easer to change ONE varible, the difficulty, than TWO variables, the difficulty AND the loot.

I can't see any reason right now that justifies the extra work.

It's not neccesary per say, but it's certainly not stupid.

The extra work? Yeah, giving players a small bonus to item quantity would be so much work, right?

The benefits is that people feel better if they are rewarded for their extra effort.

I'm not talking about a HUGE bonus to loot here. Just A bonus to loot.

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overpowdered wrote:

So you do agree that harder enemies affect experience and loot but you disagree that YOU WANTED THIS?? You made the enemies harder to make the game harder. Now nerfing the difficulty by increasing the amount of loot you get at the same time is obviously stupid.

It is only stupid if you assume that the increased experience and loot will bring back the difficulty to the base level. But it's stupid to assume that in the first place.

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Mr_Cee wrote:

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Sickness wrote:

Are you not reading? That it have an influence on "competition" is not a bad thing.

For the very last time, since you seem not willing to understand:

Competition needs a equal balanced base - EVERY INFLUENCE of this balance is not only BAD, it has to be LOCKED OUT.
Everybody would be forced to catch the rewarding advantages, and nobody wants this, for making the "normal" difficulty setting useless - everyone that wants to be competetive has to play the same rules, the same settings with the "same" rewards.

Add: I cant say it any more clear, so eod for me here.

Si.

If you want the game to be harder play a harder build, just sayin. Don't use a jackhammer when a hammer works just fine.

Also I'm not sure how you think hardmode = /players x mode. One would TOTALLY segregate play, and if a hardmode were to be implemented, it'd be in an overarching LEAGUE (Thus segregating play) not determined at every instance doorway.


Live with the fact that most of the people here disagree with you, if you can't understand why because you're too blind to your own zealous cause, then so be it.


Have you ever rushed? If you just blitz the hell out of quests you'll be 4-5 levels underleveled - Hard mode.

Being a better player means you know how to exploit the most out of being underlevelled and dealing with the high-risk high-reward play. Why would we want to implement changes that will segregate the playerbase?

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Sickness wrote:

It's not neccesary per say, but it's certainly not stupid.

The extra work? Yeah, giving players a small bonus to item quantity would be so much work, right?

The benefits is that people feel better if they are rewarded for their extra effort.

I'm not talking about a HUGE bonus to loot here. Just A bonus to loot.

Still makes no sense, they accept a penalty, like more difficult enemies and longer times to kill something and are rewarded with a thougher game play.
Now if we give them more loot than we decrease their penalty and decrease their better game play.

If it's simply about let's say 10% more loot equald 10% more fun than why limit that to hard mode?? If loot equals fun than give it to everyone.

Of course we all know that that is not true, Loot NEEDS to be limited for this type of game to make it fun to play.

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It is only stupid if you assume that the increased experience and loot will bring back the difficulty to the base level. But it's stupid to assume that in the first place.

Not necessarily bring it back, but it contradicts everything you do and that's obviously stupid.

You didn't bet better gear in torchlight for picking hard mode, you just got pleasently rear ended by everything you attacked. I agree with you Overpowdered.

It's either beanie-baby hard mode or get pwned in the arse hard mode. As a masochist and a hardcore player I think I know what one I'd lean toward. Just wait til they release cut-throat :)