Vengeance + CoH vs Blasphemy, advice appreciated

Trying to pick between two 4-links, could use some advice here please. I'm currently doing a Slayer Cyclone setup (or something resembling it with my terrible passive planning lol).

Either:

Vengeance + Curse on Hit + Enfeeble (maybe vulnerability?) + ? (I'm using blind here at the moment, but a 10% chance to blind on a 30% chance to vengeance is not much...any ideas for this 4th slot that might be better?)

Or

Blasphemy + Enfeeble (maybe vulnerability?) + ? + ? (No idea at all for these last two slots, can only have 1 curse)

Any ideas? I'm at a loss as to which is better. Should be noted that I'm using the blood magic keystone, so blasphemy would be eating ~18% of my life.

I'm also doing a cycloner (currently lvl 42), and I will go with Blasphemy + Enfeeble and Vulnerablity (can swap if I want, so will level both gems).

Vengeance is linked to Maim, but Blind also seems like a good idea. Bloodlust is also a viable option, depending on your build.

Maim has the same problem as blind for me, although it's 30% instead of 10%, it's a proc on a proc. I've been tempted to stick Maim right in my Cyclone setup though since I'm so far really not sold on Ruthless for it.

Just hard to decide if I want to rely on vengeance for my curse or if I want to sacrifice 18% of my life for a guaranteed one. Vengeance procs pretty often since you're always getting hit in Cyclone, but dunno. I'm kind of at a stand still over this one, really unsure how to proceed.

Don't understand why you need to use blood magic, but nevermind that.

18% is a lot yes, but with an enlighten gem it should be a bit less. Btw, I don't understand why you are using brutality with that sword? You are losing 10% fire damage.

Also, you are lvl 85 and only using a 4 linK?

I replaced my Added Fire with Brutality and tooltip DPS went up, so I stuck with it. No clue if it's 100% accurate but I saw no reason to doubt it.

I use Blood Magic because I find it hard to say no to 35% more life and I don't feel like dealing with mana. I could use hatred if I wasn't using blood magic though I suppose, maybe herald of ash also.

And yes, that's my weapon =/ I used my fusings and that was the best I could do. In retrospect I could have just spent the 20-30 chaos for a 5l and actually saved currency, but hindsight is 20/20.

I haven't played the game in a long time and am slowly re-learning how to play it. I'm sure I'm messing it up plenty. I would be happy to redo some stuff if you think it would make a huge improvement assuming I have the currency / respec points to do it. Still need to decide on which way to apply a curse though :P

If you're using Blood Magic, then no Blasphemy. You yourself said that you're doing BM because you wanted the 35% increased Life, ne? I guarantee Blasphemy's reservation is knocking off more life than BM's life nodes are giving you.

A lot of folks use an Orb of Storms for Curse On Hit-ing; drop it on tougher enemies that're worth cursing and you can let it do its job. More reliable than Vengeance, though slightly less autopilot-y. Either way, if you're running Blood Magic then you should avoid reserving life at all costs. if you dump Brutality, you can buy an Essence Worm ring (provided your life/resists can tolerate another unique on an already unique-heavy build) and get one free reservation (usually Hatred) on a Blood Magic build, but that's about it.

Another idea would be to pitch Blood Magic altogether, which lets you do Hatred and BlasFeeble both. The mana leech fromSlayer leech clusters should more than cover your skill mana costs by level 85 if you're doing your job at all properly. You lose a bit of life but actually gain in survivability because the Chills and Enfeebling you can inflict on your foes drastically reduces incoming damage.

Sadly, there's a reason why Blood-Magic-the-keystone is so very rarely taken. It is in almost all cases a very bum deal.

Ok, so let's say I make some changes...first things first: passive tree. Any advice is hugely appreciated. I'm using a standard slayer cyclone as a base, then modified it to suit my needs. I have also modified it for the suggestions here. I have the feeling my pathing isn't perfect so please let me know what can be improved. Of note: Someday I hope to remove the two +30 int spots, which would clear up 3 (if you count the one path node I needed) slots. But who knows? I could also leave out Spirit Void depending on how much leech I ended up needing, but I'll certainly need the node before it, so I figured why not both? If I could somehow clear up 3 nodes later on it would be huge since I could take Diamond Skin and Fire Resistance (I am planning to someday have the Red Dream jewel) but that's obviously not important now. Could remove the two nodes near warriors blood maybe? Like I said, I could likely use help here :D http://poeurl.com/by5g

As for as gem setup then (obviously I need to work on getting some of these)...

Enfeeble - Blasphemy - Hatred - ? What do put here?

Leap Slam - Faster Attacks - Increased Duration - Blood Rage

Immortal Call - CwdT - Increased Duration - Molten Shell

I would someday like to have Kaoms chest, but for now that does leave me with 4+ more sockets to work with. What to use them for? Keep using Vengeance maybe? I have Warchief for extra fun but that will be going away eventually. Dunno, not sure. Any ideas? I'm at a loss.

I didn't list my cyclone setup since that changes around a lot as I experiment. Very, very unsure about Ruthless...I hear it's great but it feels so lousy to play with.

Thank you so much for the help so far.

"

sutasafaia wrote:

I replaced my Added Fire with Brutality and tooltip DPS went up, so I stuck with it. No clue if it's 100% accurate but I saw no reason to doubt it.

I use Blood Magic because I find it hard to say no to 35% more life and I don't feel like dealing with mana. I could use hatred if I wasn't using blood magic though I suppose, maybe herald of ash also.

And yes, that's my weapon =/ I used my fusings and that was the best I could do. In retrospect I could have just spent the 20-30 chaos for a 5l and actually saved currency, but hindsight is 20/20. I haven't played the game in a long time and am slowly re-learning how to play it. I'm sure I'm messing it up plenty.

Yes, I also recently started playing again, and have also learned that is much cheaper to look for what you need on poe.trade instead of trying yourself.

I would run Grace with Iron Reflexes, it's a huge boost. And cyclone has a fixed manacost of 12, so it's not that expensive to run, even with multipliers.

Even with the 5 support gems I want, mana cost only reaches 37, which should easily be sustainable by mana leech. I even have some -mana cost nodes.

You can take a look at my Juggernaught for inspiration, though he is only lvl 42.

"

FAMO wrote:

"

sutasafaia wrote:

I replaced my Added Fire with Brutality and tooltip DPS went up, so I stuck with it. No clue if it's 100% accurate but I saw no reason to doubt it.

I use Blood Magic because I find it hard to say no to 35% more life and I don't feel like dealing with mana. I could use hatred if I wasn't using blood magic though I suppose, maybe herald of ash also.

And yes, that's my weapon =/ I used my fusings and that was the best I could do. In retrospect I could have just spent the 20-30 chaos for a 5l and actually saved currency, but hindsight is 20/20. I haven't played the game in a long time and am slowly re-learning how to play it. I'm sure I'm messing it up plenty.

Yes, I also recently started playing again, and have also learned that is much cheaper to look for what you need on poe.trade instead of trying yourself.

I would run Grace with Iron Reflexes, it's a huge boost. And cyclone has a fixed manacost of 12, so it's not that expensive to run, even with multipliers.

Even with the 5 support gems I want, mana cost only reaches 37, which should easily be sustainable by mana leech. I even have some -mana cost nodes.

You can take a look at my Juggernaught for inspiration, though he is only lvl 42.

Would love to run Grace, no idea where I would put it if I start running hatred and blasphemy/enfeeble though, assuming I do the changes I outlined in my previous post.

"

sutasafaia wrote:

Enfeeble - Blasphemy - Hatred - ? What do put here?

Leap Slam - Faster Attacks - Increased Duration - Blood Rage

Immortal Call - CwdT - Increased Duration - Molten Shell

I would someday like to have Kaoms chest, but for now that does leave me with 4+ more sockets to work with. What to use them for? Keep using Vengeance maybe? I have Warchief for extra fun but that will be going away eventually. Dunno, not sure. Any ideas? I'm at a loss.

I didn't list my cyclone setup since that changes around a lot as I experiment. Very, very unsure about Ruthless...I hear it's great but it feels so lousy to play with.

Thank you so much for the help so far.

Enfeeble-Blasphemy-Hatred-[Whatever]
Leap Slam-Faster Attacks-Fortify-Warchief
CWDT-Immortal Call-Inc Duration-Blood Rage

This way you can ditch 1 of the inc duration gems and get fortify off your leap slam as well as having a warchief who also has faster attacks and fortify. You're not missing anything from ditching molten shell since it doesn't do anything at the low levels you want to be running CWDT at can support.

You should be able to get away without using enlighten in blasphemy/hatred set-up with even moderage damage and minimal mana leech, but if not, well, jam and enlighten in there and go to town. If you wanted to keep molten shell and level it up to 20 so you might actually get some minor benefit out of it, then stick it in the 4th slot unsupported. Another solid option is a Vaal skill, something like Vaal Haste or Vaal Grace or even Vaal Lightning Trap since even with the nerf, 20% more damage is still quite a bit.

Grace is an option if you run brutality since then you can't run hatred. I'm not sure why you feel that Ruthless isn't doing the job for you, it's been working brilliantly for my melee guys (including a cycloner).