[3.0] Rash Decision - 30 APS Poison Viper/Flicker Guide

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Kwitch wrote:

When I first made the build in PoB, I initially was able to reach 44 attacks per second.

I reduced that value to 29.89 for the sake of making the build more rounded defense and hp wise, so that it could actually be played.

If your point is that 0.11 less attack speed than 30 is misleading, I'm sorry, but that's a bit pedantic.

*edit* Looking at it again, it's 30.17. I don't like this version though, so I reduced the value down so that it was more playable.

Your empty criticism is duly noted.

yet what are you playing? the picture of your stats show its 15 aps, which is a far fkin cry from 30. i don't care, and nobody should care, about theory POB numbers. i could probably make a build have 60 attacks per second......in theory.

theory means nothing. saying you have 30 aps poison viper then say that is POB theorycrafting, the actual character has 15....ya that is misleading. i suggest you change your title to include theory or theorycraft because thats what you're doing.

once you actually get your character to have 30 aps then update the build. that would be great.

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xMustard wrote:

saying you have 30 aps poison viper then say that is POB theorycrafting, the actual character has 15....ya that is misleading.

The actual character was also level 79.

But I don't particularly want to argue that with ya. The build easily reaches 28-29aps, and could do significantly more if players wish to drop breath for a faster claw or another wasp nest.

I get a lot of these types of comments, quite frequently. Typically it's someone who has decided that because I've used the word 'do' instead of the word 'due' that my entire existence is null and void, pm's telling me to kys, etc.

I mean, if your only contribution to the build guide is to say that PoB is not accurate in calculation, I think there is a large body of evidence on the contrary that supports that it is quite good at what it does. If your point was that my character is level 79 when the build for 30aps is 90, then that's fair but tremendously self-serving. That's like saying something that's on sale for 3.99 is actually 4 dollars.

I get it. Some people have problems with things like that. I don't let it get me down though, because most people reading the guide can see that everything I represented is more or less accurate down to individual differences in attack speed rolls on weapons.

Sorry you're having a bad day. Hope tomorrow is a better one for ya.

question: did you get the character to lvl 90 and obtain 28-29 APS?? if so, why not update and show those pictures

i didn't imply that POB was inaccurate, i said its theorycrafting. again i could make a build in POB that has 50 APS, that doesn't mean its realistic as a character in the game in the slightest.

right now it seems like you have a build for a fairy character that doesn't exist, which is fine, but you should state as much. AKA put theorycraft in the title.

again i didn't at all imply POB was inaccurate or that your build is dumb because you're claiming 28-29 APS isn't 30. i said your guide is misleading because its titled 30APS poison viper/flicker guide, and yet you have pictures of a character that is only lvl 76 or w/e and 15 APS. that is misleading, no two ways around it.

i could make a guide that says [3.0] SHAPER FARMER 42 APS 14million DPS completely damage immune unkillable god machine!!!, then show you my level 81 struggling horribly undergeared failure. but hey theres a pastebin!

bottom line is that when I posted this in august, semester had not started and I had free time.

Since then, that time has been almost nil. I still maintain the build guide listings so i log in to make sure those are updated. and my notifications lead me back to here, a guide that sadly was not touched in almost an entire month that clearly shows that I ran out of time to play.

I mean, you're the one who is having definition issues with it. I never claimed it's a shaper farmer either. If you read through past comments to other players as we figured out how to make it work and what issues there were mechanically and thematically.

Your post was this:

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far cry from 30 aps. pretty misleading

I mean, any response I could make would sound defensive when a statement is so pointed.

For what it's worth, I hold guides to a standard of both production and competence for my listings. You may not have known this, but I did not ask for this guide to be 'submitted' to the builds listings for ranger because as you hold tightly to this fact, it's just not max level farming yet.

I guess at this point it's a 'internet points i want to be right raw rawr' issue. Semantics really. You seem to have figured out what was bugging ya and sorted it out though. We don't have to see eye to eye on describing how things work versus how dare I make a guide for people and then not have time to play it.

For those that have an interest in trying the build and going with it, it's here for them. I have made no claims that it can clear higher level content. If you re-read my pros/cons section, you will note I mentioned that "Has yet to be proven in T16 maps.", "All evasion characters can have unlucky strings of damage.", and "For end-game, needs really good rolled rings."

If you were trying to come from a place of interest or helpful criticism, you really fudged that up. Feel free to try again if it bugs ya enough.

so the answer is no.

you say 30 aps and you've obtained 15.

good luck on the build and in school

JW how do you sustain yourself in tougher fights? I made a similar build to yours, and I am having real issues with sustain.

Vaal pact doesn't seem to cut it because the on-hit damage is so low because we're relying heavily on poison damage. I'm currently level 72 and able to clear most content fine, but some bosses which spam heavy hitting spells/skills are wrecking me along with heavy degen attacks.

I feel like VP is the only viable route, which means reducing poison damage to increase on-hit damage with flicker/viper strike. Still trying to decide as I continue leveling further.

Flicker seems alright so far, but once I have all of my sockets figured out, I'll see if I want to stick with it. I'm still trying to decide between flicker and reave. Flicker is certainly fun to play, but it's a super rippy skill when you are dealing with poison. Most flicker builds I've used 1-shot mobs instantly so you don't have to worry about getting trashed, but because of the delay I'm having with some mobs, they are able to get hits off and get me dangerously low. I would die most times if it weren't for my double seething life flasks for insta heals.

I think if I can fit in vaal reave, I will probably make the switch over and see how I like it. I think vaal reave/reave setup is much safer and clears just as fast, but no flicker I guess is the downside.

I six linked a 5 off color covenant accidentally this league, while writing a reply to someone else's guide, and that made me excited to spend what little time I have to play PoE this season invested in leveling that character.

Ultimately, I managed to hit 84 and was just starting to get a respectable life pool. So I will answer to the best of my abilities from that point.

Not having large hits from which to Vaal Pact leech from is an issue, as some others have stated. I believed this issue was on the process of being solved through changing the playstyle from what I am typically used to, with an emphasis on leaving packs before they die and manually traveling to the next pack. This means not just holding down flicker the entire time, and intentionally switching to whirling blades when flicker would otherwise keep you pinned somewhere.

It's not an elegant solution, but it's the limitation of the game mechanism. It is not smart enough to know when to 'leave' because sufficient damage is applied to monsters and they will die eventually. So it requires some player skill.

Considering this, I should definitely add that to the cons section. Requires mental fortitude.

Okay, so back to your concern. I'm pretty unimpressed with VP to be honest. The build doesn't feel like it needs it, I think I mentioned in the guide that I wasn't sold on it and more testing was required. Thinking on it now, I still believe the on-hit portion of the build is the strongest form of life gain. Regular leech mechanics still 'work', however they are capped at a maximum of 25% of total hp gain / second of play. With Blood Rage + map degens, that could be anti-fun. I'm going to tentatively say non-VP is likely perfectly fine.

you said:

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ironstove wrote:

I feel like VP is the only viable route, which means reducing poison damage to increase on-hit damage with flicker/viper strike.

This was a bit confusing, as I don't think VP has anything to do with poison damage. What abbreviation were you thinking of? I couldn't figure it out so explain that part to me again when you read this.

*edit* I think i understand what you were implying here now... You were saying I should nerf the DoT to increase the hit, thereby improving quality of life of VP. If that's the case, my thoughts are that VP really won't get 'nice' enough to warrant self-nerfing in my opinion, however that's subjective and I haven't run test numbers yet. I can if you have an idea of what level of nerfing we're talking about here, but as it stands right now I just think that sounds really hard to consider as-is.

And as I addressed, I likely believe VP is unnecessary in general.

I personally detest reave. I've tried to like it. It's a preference thing I suppose. It's neat that it has a range that is greater than monster melee distance, so I can see how it would be preferable to evasion characters.

Finally, I was not mapping at 72. I was still farming blood aqueduct until 75. I don't know your build or your defenses or hit point pool / EHP. I'm not sure how to compare without some numbers there.

Cheers

73 lvl here. While single target dps is great i am having troubles with clearing maps (harbingers are worst). Thats my gear



Also phys ref hurts a lot.

This is the first I've heard anyone have issues with phys reflect. Hmm. You do have some added phys (which is important and helpful) but your leech and life gain on hit should have sorted that out. Since we scale the chaos portion of damage, moreso than phys.

A 6 link is awesome, I would hope your single target is strong!

I might suggest a second wasp's nest for a while, as it will double your LGoH. You also have the entire con wheel to get to.

And as I've answered to others, not staying in one group too long is important. Apply your stacks and move on.

It's my expectation that this will resolve itself once characters reach 80 and steel rings are available. But I have not been able to test it myself due to availability.

good luck!

Yep single target kick ass. And general map clear is not too bad. But i have serious issues with harbringers cuz when u stop flickering (going out of frenzy) ure dead and when u try to pick them one by one with viper its also bad cuz they pin u down quckly. Tried reave but i dont rylly like it. Spectral throw works well on harbeingers but only for them. Phys reff isnt that punishing with phanteon reff perk. So guys how do u deal with harbringers since applying stack of posion and laying low somewhere dont rylly work on them.





After some testing i came up that cyclone is much safer then flicker and much easier to track posion distribution. I recommend using cyclone on 6l (swap with viper on bosses) and cwdt setup on helmet.