I still feel like HP builds are weak...

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valbanil wrote:

I use Energy Shield with Eldrich Battery and Mind over Matter :

-4.5k life
-3k es

30% damage into shield before life and I also use blasphemy enfeeble 30% less damage from monsters.

And even with that damage mitigation I almost get one shotted by the spider in the T8 map...

I feel like enfeeble does not work.

Curses have less effectiveness against bosses, they work, but worse.
(60% less against bosses and 80% against guardians/shaper if I recall correctly)

The thing you can do is, get curse effectiveness nodes, skittering runes gives 20%, the other 2 cluster gives 10-10% each as well as if you get quality on blasphemy that is an other 10%.

Edit: checking your setup enfeeble is not on your blasphemy and you don't have place for 3 curses anyway.

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krenderke wrote:

Curses have less effectiveness against bosses, they work, but worse.
(60% less against bosses and 80% against guardians/shaper if I recall correctly)

The thing you can do is, get curse effectiveness nodes, skittering runes gives 20%, the other 2 cluster gives 10-10% each as well as if you get quality on blasphemy that is an other 10%.

Edit: checking your setup enfeeble is not on your blasphemy and you don't have place for 3 curses anyway.

I see I could get more curse effectiveness, but losing 60% or 80% really? Thanks for saying me that, I'll stop using enfeeble and I will go for more damage instead.

Edit : that's because instead of warlord's mark I used life leech on my freezing pulse and enfeeble, I just changed it recently because I was thinking the curse did not work.

"

valbanil wrote:

I see I could get more curse effectiveness, but losing 60% or 80% really? Thanks for saying me that, I'll stop using enfeeble and I will go for more damage instead.

Edit : that's because instead of warlord's mark I used life leech on my freezing pulse and enfeeble, I just changed it recently because I was thinking the curse did not work.

Let's say you pick up skittering runes and get quality on blasphemy, that is 40% increased curse effect with the 10% you already took on the tree.

Your curses will have 140% effectiveness against things and 140*0.4 against basic bosses with is 56% instead of 40%.

For a level enfeeble that translates to : 12% less dmg taken ->> 16.8% (which I believe rounds up but not sure) less dmg taken, it is still worth it, increasing your effective hit point pool by 12 or 17% is worth it, even better on trash mobs.

While for normal mobs 30% without that effect to 42% with it.

So yeah enfeeble is definitely worth keeping, I would throw assassins mark away and use like orb of storms pcoc for the charge generation

I see, I will try later if I'm not too lazy to play poe.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

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EzBreesy wrote:

You can have enfeeble+Lightning coil+endurance charge+fortify+ block from shield and still get bursted easily by physical monsters if you don't kill them fast enough.

that sounds like pretty meh defenses if thats all thats going on. You have all that and you have basalt and taste of hate and 15-20k evasion and acrobatics + phase and arctic armour and you have 6.5k to 7k life with sources of blind plus you have leech and maybe life regen. Thats more what I could consider proper defense.

And 3k hp and get one shot by any elemental dmg.

Btw show a character with as much defenses as you said.

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zzang wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

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EzBreesy wrote:

You can have enfeeble+Lightning coil+endurance charge+fortify+ block from shield and still get bursted easily by physical monsters if you don't kill them fast enough.

that sounds like pretty meh defenses if thats all thats going on. You have all that and you have basalt and taste of hate and 15-20k evasion and acrobatics + phase and arctic armour and you have 6.5k to 7k life with sources of blind plus you have leech and maybe life regen. Thats more what I could consider proper defense.

Dont forget to mention ur mirror weapon snorkle to compensate for the fuck damage you would have if you got all those mentioned defenses in one build active all the time.

https://www.pathofexile.com/fullscreen-passive-skill-tree/3.0.1/AAAABAIBAQBeBS0FfQW1Bx4ILgzyDY0OSBEvEZYWqha_FyYZjhm0Go0j0yP2JJ0k_SaVKgsrCizhLlMwcTB8MgE31DpCPL490UHQQzFHBkd-SVFKfUt4TP9Nkk4qUUdVS1b1WhpbJluvXfJfcGHiYetiWmKsZU1noGqTbAhsjG8ncFJwVnTtelN6hHrvfXV943_7g22E2Yd2idOK8Iw2jX2Nv46Kj2CP-pUul9CaE5pqmyabjZ2qo4qly6xmsKuyGbTFuT69Nr6nwuzDM8SCz3rQrdDQ02_TftQj2HbY1drB227b1Nvn3ajjn-dU6NbpRu0_7YPuDu968NXxivzF_rr_3g==


thats the passive tree I use on my melee ranger. What have I spent defense points on other than life and damage? 5 points in phase acrobatics. Thats it. How is it costing damage to get those defenses? Run arctic armour, its 1/4 of your auras, 3/4 are damage auras. 2x flasks, one of which is also a dps flask. 18k evasion comes from gear and the evasion % you already get on life nodes. Enfeeble is 2 gem slots with cwdt. Endurance charges is a gem slot for enduring cry. Fortify is a gem on your movement skill. Blind is a gem on your pcoc orb of storms and golem. Coil is an item, you put it on. Where is it costing you damage to get defenses on top of your life? 5 nodes into phase acro, thats your defense layers passive investment.

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EzBreesy wrote:

Btw show a character with as much defenses as you said.

^^^

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krenderke wrote:

It does not force you to run 8mod maps, but the poblems are there even if it is just a regular high tier maps without 8 mods, if you don't have enough EHP.

I did the minotaur in a 50c worth of gear on my berserker, having 5.5k life was not feeling good though, with 7k I can roll harder mods on it, and it is not like my defenses are not layered enough, I have spent a generous amount of time balancing them to have that golden ratio for the purposes I use it for.

Ok, heres the thing, I dont think we actually disagree that much its just we have crossed wires. I wouldnt run the 5.5k life build either, Id go with the 7k life build, its just that Id then get the defenses on the 7k life build by getting really strong defense rolls on the gear. I dont use things like brass dome, I try not to use any items that dont have life if possible. First and foremost I stack the hell out of life too, its just I then add defenses and if its a case of coil vs belly, belly might give a bit more life but I think the defense of coil is more worth it. But a coil still has life, and I want a 79-80 life coil.

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krenderke wrote:

But you can give me a "proper" armor build in path of building and I'll make it stronger for endgame maps by managing the resources differently, the only requirement for it is to be an armor build, but I warn you Aegis and block is also in the same shoes as armor, so if you give me an aegis build as an example I turn it into a statstick DW anything with +2k life and way more dmg.

I have an aegis spec, Ill get it run through its passives over the next day or 2 and post it for you. Of course u can get more damage by going fake dual wield. You wont get 2k more life, I dunno till i respec with the 3.0 tree fully but it will probably have over 8,500 hp, I dont think ur gonna get 10,500 hp on a dual wield crit sword duelist, maybe Im wrong but I dont see it.

I know u can get more damage by going fake dual wield, could go abyssus even, take out all block and go pure damage nodes, sure. But what are you trying to prove with that? You wont get more survivability, what u end up with will be a more fragile character. So if your point is that you dont need the defense, you can just stack more damage, less defense and be fine... sure, I over defend my builds and I wouldnt argue with the idea that you can have less defense than I have and still virtually never die. Thats fine, but what Ive said in this thread is in response to the idea ppl just get 1 shot all the time and cant defend themselves, Im saying that doesnt happen to me, the 1 shots dont seem to exist. If you want to get more damage, less defense, and still survive everything then thats fine I wouldnt knock what ur saying.

If your position is in agreement with the people who think life builds are bad and die too much then thats something else entirely. I wouldnt disagree with something saying I dont need much defense I dont die with the defense I have, Im just disagreeing with people who think that life builds are doomed to die to 1 shots on a regular basis and they cant build their characters differently. Im not gonna wrongly chose one of those camps for you, thats up to you to decide which of those positions you agree with.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

https://www.pathofexile.com/fullscreen-passive-skill-tree/3.0.1/AAAABAIBAQBeBS0FfQW1Bx4ILgzyDY0OSBEvEZYWqha_FyYZjhm0Go0j0yP2JJ0k_SaVKgsrCizhLlMwcTB8MgE31DpCPL490UHQQzFHBkd-SVFKfUt4TP9Nkk4qUUdVS1b1WhpbJluvXfJfcGHiYetiWmKsZU1noGqTbAhsjG8ncFJwVnTtelN6hHrvfXV943_7g22E2Yd2idOK8Iw2jX2Nv46Kj2CP-pUul9CaE5pqmyabjZ2qo4qly6xmsKuyGbTFuT69Nr6nwuzDM8SCz3rQrdDQ02_TftQj2HbY1drB227b1Nvn3ajjn-dU6NbpRu0_7YPuDu968NXxivzF_rr_3g==

7k Life with that tree? Now i feel like you are not just a humblebrag clown but and a liar.

You can get 7k life with a 206% tree but the issue with the one Snorkles presented there is its heavily gear reliant, dps investment is like 20 points short of what a softcore and/or normal build would take in order to compensate for that you'll need strongly rolled weapons and accessories.

Still its a nice clean defensively strong tree albeit for what level 97/98? don't remember what level 118 points is. Also there is no actual investment in defence here apart from acrobatics, the rest is pretty much the passive evade you get traveling around the dex area, this is an issue I see with more and more builds these days you just can't justify the investment to take pure armour or evade nodes, soul of steel is about it for armour.

They should probably increase their value but i'm still in favour of them just buffing the life nodes appropriately, the automatic assumption is if they buff life nodes people will just continue to stack them to ever increasing numbers but what you really want is a threshold where defence increases your survivability by more than the few extra life nodes.

Not sure we'll ever get there but its been a hope of mine for some time.

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The main problem with armor builds is still that there are 3 things you need to balance out on them, armor/life/dmg and mainly if you get armor, the other 2 gets neglected way too much, if you take 2, then the last one has no room to be there anymore either.

That's not entirely true. Even without shield there is at least 1 easy way how to build a decent armor without too much investment - that's juggernaut + brass dome. Just with mild 100% inc armor from tree, you will have over 20K armor from that! And such a build can still utilize 2H weapon which by itself should provide enough DPS. Even if you are forced to use weapon as Marohi Erqi (which is damn cheap) and you manage to get it 6L, you are already good DPS wise for majority of content!

"

Draegnarrr wrote:

You can get 7k life with a 206% tree but the issue with the one Snorkles presented there is its heavily gear reliant, dps investment is like 20 points short of what a softcore and/or normal build would take in order to compensate for that you'll need strongly rolled weapons and accessories.

Which is my initial point inb4 mirror dagger link. And 7k sounds unrealistic with that tree without belly or kaoms and strength rolled coral rings. I could be wrong on this though.