Your opinion on Crimson dance keystone

Might sound silly but you could probably stack 8 pretty easy and then when you get all 8 stacks up switch over to another possible skill with bloodlust linked and whatever else to probably go ham on whatever boss you want to go ham on. Its very situational and like many people have already stated bleeds main thing is more damage while the enemy is moving so its confusing why they would destroy that aspect completely. This may sound stupid but I rather take targets that are bled enrage or something dealing more damage etc but still stacks but I don't know I'm not a GGG mod lol.

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Tarille wrote:

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Mal_function wrote:

Looking at a simple case with a 100 damage hit and a standard duration of 5 seconds.

Stationary target, no keystone: bleed damage = 100 * 10% damage * 5 sec = 50 damage
Moving target, no keystone: bleed damage = 100 * 60% damage * 5 sec = 300 damage
Any target, with keystone: bleed damage = 100 * 10% damage * 8 bleeds * 50% less damage * 5 sec = 200 damage

As most targets tend to move one way or another, seems like a damage nerf. For the few stationary targets (Atziri etc) quite a buff.

Overall, a bit too situational and mostly a damage nerf, assuming you can even stack 8 bleeds.

Are you taking into account the rework to Bleed in 3.0 that makes stationary targets take more damage and moving targets not get as big an increase in damage?

If I recall correctly, Bleed has gone from 10% damage while stationary and 60% damage while moving to 20% damage while stationary and 40% damage while moving.

So using your numbers:

100 * 20% damage * 5 sec = 100 damage

100 * 40% damage * 5 sec = 200 damage

100 * 20% damage * 8 bleeds * 50% less damage * 5 sec = 400 damage

Essentially a net gain of damage if you reach 4+ stacks.

As far as the keystone goes... It seem interesting. Especially given its over by the melee side and in my experience melee doesn't do the kiting thing so well outside specifically Earthquake so doesn't get the moving bonus as often (Which I always felt was weird, melee have all these bleed nodes but was in a worse position to keep targets moving to get something out of them...)

It's just... You know... Stacking and whatnot... Favours high damage fast attack speed builds... Would have been nice to get better support for "Use big fuck off skill to apply mega-bleed" type play rather than cater towards already the better style of build...

Also in your scenario's the playstyle without keystone would be "hit once, kite for 5 seconds", where as with keystone you would be "hit 8 times, don't kite". So in that sense with the keystone you are doing 8 hits as well and output more damage overall, where as without keystone you are running around for most of the time like a tool.

The keystone gives more meaningful impact on bleed as the damage ramps up over couple seconds. You do 8 attacks, dodge enemy telegraphed attacks, go back in, make 8 attacks. There are also many bosses that don't move around, or does so very rarely. Merveil, Dominus, Malachai, etc likes to mostly stay in one place, meaning the keystone makes bleed a lot better damage source, even tho it will probably never become "bleed only dps".

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ZACHWILDCAT wrote:

Might sound silly but you could probably stack 8 pretty easy and then when you get all 8 stacks up switch over to another possible skill with bloodlust linked and whatever else to probably go ham on whatever boss you want to go ham on. Its very situational and like many people have already stated bleeds main thing is more damage while the enemy is moving so its confusing why they would destroy that aspect completely. This may sound stupid but I rather take targets that are bled enrage or something dealing more damage etc but still stacks but I don't know I'm not a GGG mod lol.

My favorite method so far has been to use Flickerstrike to initiate the bleeding and get close to boss really fast, then use Cyclone with Bloodlust on it for extra damage. It's really enjoyable and gives good damage boost.

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Shagsbeard wrote:

Is this another of your "should be" posts, or is this actually in the game?

Guess not. Looks like one of yours though.

brutal. At least this strawpoll has reasonable options.

Talk about a redundant thread.

Peace,

-Boem-

garbage wasn't an option. huh

2 way to go: Bear Traps or Bleed Totems.

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ZACHWILDCAT wrote:

Might sound silly but you could probably stack 8 pretty easy and then when you get all 8 stacks up switch over to another possible skill with bloodlust linked and whatever else to probably go ham on whatever boss you want to go ham on.

Though, I'm not sure I see the point of that in all honesty. I mean, with Ignite and Poison there's The Taming and Growing Agony/Vile Toxins respectively to gain a bonus for each copy of the effect on a target.

While Bleed currently only has binary conditionals of "Is the target Bleeding? Yes/No"

Meaning that, if your focus is to leverage a secondary skill with Bloodlust, you may as well build for it and then just use a simple Puncture/Inc Duration/Unbound Ailments to just get a single Bleed that lasts like a year but will function just as well as 8 stacks for activating Bloodlust.

If they added something that benefited from Bleed stacks, then maybe... But that would be designing an item/jewel/gem literally around a single keystone (Possibly in the future a Unique that gives the keystone too)...

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SodanKerjuu wrote:

Also in your scenario's the playstyle without keystone would be "hit once, kite for 5 seconds", where as with keystone you would be "hit 8 times, don't kite". So in that sense with the keystone you are doing 8 hits as well and output more damage overall, where as without keystone you are running around for most of the time like a tool.

Technically, there can be scenarios where kiting isn't that bad. I mean, for starters, bows. Stutter step is pretty easy to do and ensures a bunch of kiting to be had...

Even melee has Earthquake and Ancestral Warchief Totem (Also to an extent, Cyclone) that can kite things.

There's also knockback, which can be a way to get a bunch of movement out of a mob without you yourself having to do anything... (One of the ways I think a Knockback Support gem could be viable if there wasn't a million and one different "More Damage" gems... But that's another thread's discussion)

If only the bleed damage was based on distance travelled rather than time spent moving... Then you could get some Vaal Lightning Warp shenanigans going...

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Tarille wrote:

If only the bleed damage was based on distance travelled rather than time spent moving... Then you could get some Vaal Lightning Warp shenanigans going...

I do like this mechanic.

In Heroes of Newerth they recently changed Blood Hunter's ultimate ability to do just that. Now it's quite good to do Tablet of Command (push stick in dota) that not only breaks opponent's ability to use homecoming stone, but actually even do extra damage as all distance traveled deals extra damage.

I think it should have been named