Give some love to catarina and Leo.

Well maybe GGG will add some new mods for craft? And buff life too?

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The_Risen wrote:

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Jackalope_Gaming wrote:

Hm? What's wrong with Catarina right now?

And yeah, Leo's stuff needs to be reworked.

You need to return to her on most missions, which means backtracking, with nothing to kill in the way most of the time, therefore no quicksilver, therefore even slower... which means a hugeeee loss of time/fun/xp/loot.

There it is, the completely assisted vision of "I don't wnat any backtracking bouuuh bouuuuh it's soooo bad game design please gave me everything the easiest and fastest way possible and fuck consistency I don't care !".

:/

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Fruz wrote:

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The_Risen wrote:

"

Jackalope_Gaming wrote:

Hm? What's wrong with Catarina right now?

And yeah, Leo's stuff needs to be reworked.

You need to return to her on most missions, which means backtracking, with nothing to kill in the way most of the time, therefore no quicksilver, therefore even slower... which means a hugeeee loss of time/fun/xp/loot.

There it is, the completely assisted vision of "I don't wnat any backtracking bouuuh bouuuuh it's soooo bad game design please gave me everything the easiest and fastest way possible and fuck consistency I don't care !".

:/

Well in his defence, GGG actually encouraged the "no backtracking" to complete master missions - which you seem to forget that was mostly done on an empty map - so making Catarina work that way too isn't an extraordinary request by any means (although after the rework I think that I never had to backtrack any of the missions, as you always had to return minions or Catarina actually teleported in your vicinity when you completed the mission)..

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sofocle10000 wrote:

Well in his defence, GGG actually encouraged the "no backtracking" to complete master missions - which you seem to forget that was mostly done on an empty map - so making Catarina work that way too isn't an extraordinary request by any means (although after the rework I think that I never had to backtrack any of the missions, as you always had to return minions or Catarina actually teleported in your vicinity when you completed the mission)..

I wish they didn't .... but they did yeah.
And after you've cleared the map, you realize that you needto feed 50 souls to the skeleton and you're screwed lulz.

And Catarina does teleport already if you just need to kill the targets yes.

But the main culprit of all of this might just be the clearspeed meta,the more you push people to speed speed speed speed speed speed .... and the more any kind of backtracking will feel "punishing" for some.

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Fruz wrote:

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sofocle10000 wrote:

Well in his defence, GGG actually encouraged the "no backtracking" to complete master missions - which you seem to forget that was mostly done on an empty map - so making Catarina work that way too isn't an extraordinary request by any means (although after the rework I think that I never had to backtrack any of the missions, as you always had to return minions or Catarina actually teleported in your vicinity when you completed the mission)..

I wish they didn't .... but they did yeah.
And after you've cleared the map, you realize that you needto feed 50 souls to the skeleton and you're screwed lulz.

And Catarina does teleport already if you just need to kill the targets yes.

But the main culprit of all of this might just be the clearspeed meta,the more you push people to speed speed speed speed speed speed .... and the more any kind of backtracking will feel "punishing" for some.

I'm just lvl 95, almost 96, and ive focused this character a lot, so i don't think i'm all up for the clearspeed meta either, but i hate backtracking nonetheless. If only i could run as fast as i can with my quicksilver, it's pointless, why would i want to walk by again a part that has nothing to do, nothing new to see?! Simple, in any kind of RPG this would suck.

Because Catarina has a sexy voice?

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The_Risen wrote:

it's pointless, why would i want to walk by again a part that has nothing to do, nothing new to see?! Simple, in any kind of RPG this would suck.

Why would I want to go talk to NPC instead of everysingle one of them speaking thelepatically to me and giving me all quests like this ?
I mean, I have been to these towns before right ?

Why isn't there an elevator from the Lioneye's entrance until the waypoint ? That new stair is nice, but I've been there already ?

Why doesn't Tasuni teleport me to the bandit location once I've met them if they are still alive ?
I mean, I have been there, why should I put one foot before the other and to the extreme effort to run until there after all ?

I'm pretty sure I could keep going, and find much sillier than this, but I think that it is not necessary.

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Fruz wrote:

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The_Risen wrote:

it's pointless, why would i want to walk by again a part that has nothing to do, nothing new to see?! Simple, in any kind of RPG this would suck.

Why would I want to go talk to NPC instead of everysingle one of them speaking thelepatically to me and giving me all quests like this ?

Thats a very false simmetry you have there, one thing takes minutes to do (walking back to catarina with her stupid minions) while adding nothing new, and the others are just mindless stuff you tried to use as an argument.. Yes, we don't need even more instant-automatic stuff, i agree with you, but this has nothing to do with being instant, it's just that all masters got reworked very nicely, except catarina, leo and those times that vorici sends you to the beggining of the map.... (well, imo, we could use something to make chaos recipe faster/stashing gear in huge stash tabs with millions of tabs faster)

"minutes to do" ?
That's either of very bad faith, or just fallacious.

The analogies I used are no "false simmetry", they add nothing you, yet for the sake of immersion/consistency, they are better this way.
It's basically the same for what we are talking about here, even if it's less obvious.


All master didn't exactly get reworked very nicely, Vorici got dumb downed, way to much.
People stop caring about consistency and just want to be more and more assisted and that's sad imho.

And Catarina got "reworked" like the others, if you have a mission to just kill minions, she teleports to you.

Better reworks should have been to ideally spawn targets / minions where there are still other monsters remaning imho, that would have been much better, more than all masters teleporting everywhere.
Something that I think would be nice ( but is never going to happen due to itprobably not being worth boethered about ), would be to have some more immersive elements, for exampel :
- a music starting to play when one starts animating the deads of Catarina.

The main problem is that the game speed has increased so much that such a "cost" ( walking 15~20 secs ) isn't worth it at all to people's eyes anymore.

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Fruz wrote:

"minutes to do" ?
That's either of very bad faith, or just fallacious.

The analogies I used are no "false simmetry", they add nothing you, yet for the sake of immersion/consistency, they are better this way.
It's basically the same for what we are talking about here, even if it's less obvious.

Yes they are, the bandits for instance, you go there while leveling and killing stuff, then you leave, if you do it correctly, you don't have to go back to them a single time. Therefore no backtracking enjoying the view gameplay, i'm sorry if this is too modern or new to some people, but Enjoying-The-View-RPG-Gameplay is out of the "meta" for more than 6 years now, even skyrim had many features that allowed players to skip pointless traveling/having to walk back to the beggining of a cave. It angers me why i even have to argument this kind of stuff, why would someone like this kind of crap in their game. omg haha
The stairs to the waypoint was freaking lovely and proves exactly my point of how people don't like mindless walking, specially when there is nothing new to see in the view (like random npcs or rare and curious events/easter eggs). Lmao, thanks for reminding me, and no we don't want an elevator, just more stuff like that stairs =D so we have even less backtracking. At least i'm tranquil knowing that i'm with the majority here.
Talking with npc's, same thing, we all skip the fucking convos, so we don't talk, just quickly click on the right ones in the fastest order possible to maximize the reduction in the chore gameplay/backtracking, i believe even you do that. So no hypocrisy please.