Molten Strike DPS Calculator

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MoldyDwarf wrote:

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twittypoopcraft wrote:

Conc effect linked with MS does nothing both in POB and in-game. Can't figure out why that is.

That is a good question. The in-game tooltip and the default in PoB is for the melee hit. You'll want to switch to "magma balls" in PoB to see the effect. Ignore the in-game tooltip. It's basically worthless since we get so much more damage from the projectiles than from the hit.

I finally stumbled upon the skill toggle button last night. Thanks for pointing that out though.

If we wanted to get a rough estimate on total combined DPS with MS, is it as simple as just combining the melee hit and Magma balls together or is there even more to this story ?

I also can't help but notice how Proj dmg scales infinitely better with MS than it does for Spec throw. I mean, simply by switching out ST with MS in a generic build gives a 1000% increase in DPS. ST seems horribly weak right now.

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twittypoopcraft wrote:

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If we wanted to get a rough estimate on total combined DPS with MS, is it as simple as just combining the melee hit and Magma balls together or is there even more to this story?

The first two modifiable rows "Path of Building ..." are for the melee hit number in PoB and the magma ball number in PoB. Enter them both. At the bottom of the spreadsheet, you'll see "Total Single Target DPS." This combines all the effects from both.

In PoB, be sure to not put a number in the point blank column. Molten strike spreads balls over a large range and it's incorrect to just guess a range an put a number in (e.g. a lot of people seem to like putting 10 in because it makes their PoB DPS look big, but that overestimates the damage); the spreadsheet understands this and calculates the true PB bonus (hint: it's not possible right now to get enough AoE for it to not be a bonus, but you get much less than the max bonus even with conc eff).

The spreadsheet has notes for most of the rows. Over over the little black triangles in the top right of the label cells to see the notes.

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twittypoopcraft wrote:

I also can't help but notice how Proj dmg scales infinitely better with MS than it does for Spec throw. I mean, simply by switching out ST with MS in a generic build gives a 1000% increase in DPS. ST seems horribly weak right now.

With BLS, molten strike is definitely better for single target. I leveled from either 95 or 97 to 100 last league with ST. ST was a lot safer in double beyond + full sextants + full leaguestones because there was pretty much always a projectile hitting something somewhere and acting as a leech source. I could also cover an entire side of the screen with ease. On the other hand, the damage was far worse. Each time I wanted to take a break from leveling, I respecced back to MS to have fun doing hard bosses like guardians and Shaper.

Beyond clearspeed, ST does have some mechanical advantages, if you're willing to acquire the skill to use it properly. Every projectile can hit many times if you use it right. With good skill, slower projectiles and the deceleration enchant, the projectiles just sit on bosses and hack away at them. I found I didn't like that playstyle, so I didn't bother theorycrafting enough to know how it actually compares to MS. If you do use ST, do not use the deceleration enchant for map clearing. It's really really bad. Your projectiles just hang out for a long time offscreen. You're much better off with an unenchanted helm than with that enchant when clearing maps.

here comes the ancestral call...
But I guess it is more or less irrelevant since you don't use AC with single target

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sharbe wrote:

here comes the ancestral call...
But I guess it is more or less irrelevant since you don't use AC with single target

The real questions I have are... Does AC + worms + ele focus + southbound work? If so, how much extra DPS do we actually get vs. single-target? This will be affected by distance of worms, deadzone angle, etc. Will that DPS be worth the loss of a better link and the less damage multiplier of AC? This probably needs to be tested in PvP. If anyone knows of a defensive mechanic with no cooldown (e.g. not reckoning, cwdt, or cws), then we could use that to measure the number of hits. Otherwise we need to do a kill time test (stack less multipliers, no str, no extra projectiles, etc.).

If it doesn't work that well for single target, then we can just use AC as a gem swap for clearing.

The other alternative is to use traditional MS for single target and a 4+2 link on Spectral Throw for clearing. Mathil's been playing with this approach for a league. Since we can't get Tempest's Binding in Abyss, I'm waiting to see how easy it is to get a good Shaper or Elder items before theorycrafting this too much.

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MoldyDwarf wrote:

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sharbe wrote:

here comes the ancestral call...
But I guess it is more or less irrelevant since you don't use AC with single target

The real questions I have are... Does AC + worms + ele focus + southbound work? If so, how much extra DPS do we actually get vs. single-target? This will be affected by distance of worms, deadzone angle, etc. Will that DPS be worth the loss of a better link and the less damage multiplier of AC? This probably needs to be tested in PvP. If anyone knows of a defensive mechanic with no cooldown (e.g. not reckoning, cwdt, or cws), then we could use that to measure the number of hits. Otherwise we need to do a kill time test (stack less multipliers, no str, no extra projectiles, etc.).

If it doesn't work that well for single target, then we can just use AC as a gem swap for clearing.

The other alternative is to use traditional MS for single target and a 4+2 link on Spectral Throw for clearing. Mathil's been playing with this approach for a league. Since we can't get Tempest's Binding in Abyss, I'm waiting to see how easy it is to get a good Shaper or Elder items before theorycrafting this too much.

holy shit southbound+worms is so clever.

Where do I put in the numbers? Ive been trying to type numbers in tons of them, it doesnt work?

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ubersuperduper wrote:

Where do I put in the numbers? Ive been trying to type numbers in tons of them, it doesnt work?

With Google sheets, first make a copy of the spreadsheet so you can edit it. Then edit one of the columns or make a copy to edit. Replace the green cells with your numbers. If any of the rows don't make sense, hover your mouse over the labels on the left. All of the green rows and even most of the auto-calculated yellow rows have tooltips explaining them.

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MoldyDwarf wrote:

The real questions I have are... Does AC + worms + ele focus + southbound work? If so, how much extra DPS do we actually get vs. single-target? This will be affected by distance of worms, deadzone angle, etc. Will that DPS be worth the loss of a better link and the less damage multiplier of AC? This probably needs to be tested in PvP. If anyone knows of a defensive mechanic with no cooldown (e.g. not reckoning, cwdt, or cws), then we could use that to measure the number of hits. Otherwise we need to do a kill time test (stack less multipliers, no str, no extra projectiles, etc.).

I just wanted to add a few more thoughts since I've played a little molten strike on standard during Bestiary league.

• For fights with isolated high hitpoint bosses that stand still, AC can add a lot of DPS. The catch is you have to be pretty good with the positioning to not lose DPS. For example, it's a net DPS loss most of the time for Uber Elder fights because you have to be so mobile, but...
• If you have to dodge a lot, as is often the case for Uber Elder, AC is great. It effectively gives you more range. So even if you're doing less damage, you're more likely to be hitting, leeching, and getting life gain on hit.
• I think a better way to test AC's hit rate is with life gain on hit:
  
  • Use PvP against a very tanky person that doesn't rely on curses, has no evasion, does not use blind, has no stibnite flask, has no attack dodge, and has no way to auto-proc any kind of stun, attack, counter-attack, or anything that could interrupt the MS attacker. I think block should be fine.
  • For the MS attacker, maximize the number of balls, but minimize the damage so there's no risk that the tank will die. Don't use dying sun.
  • The MS attacker should have RT, lycosidae, or some other form of 100% uptime "hits can't be evaded."
  • The MS should have no life regen, no life leech, but a tiny bit of life gain on hit (as little as possible). A high life pool is good.
  • Before starting a PvP test, the MS attacker should use RF to get down to 1 life. Then we can measure the hit rate by watching the life counter go up as LGoH gets triggered. LGoH will be the only way the attacker can get life back.
  • Then we measure how many attacks it takes to get back to full life. Variables to consider: net AoE, distance from the attacker, angle (GGG has said they use Manhattan distance rather than Euclidean distance so it'd be useful to test a pure horizontal attack, pure vertical attack, and attacks at 45 degrees).
  
  

In-game tooltip for Molten Strike is just laughable.

It literally understated the dps around 20 times of the actual dps.
(It doesn't count any of the fireball dps + concentration)

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mic01851165 wrote:

In-game tooltip for Molten Strike is just laughable.

It literally understated the dps around 20 times of the actual dps.
(It doesn't count any of the fireball dps + concentration)

You're correct. The ingame tooltip is quite bad.

One of the reasons it's so inaccurate is that it gives information about the melee hit damage, not the ball damage.