Tackling the limitations of PoE: Part Two - Difficulty

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Darkkrows wrote:

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鬼殺し wrote:

As I've said before and elsewhere, GGG's half-adoption of D2's death penalty system is really baffling. They copied/improved so many things from other games, but failed to appropriately implement a death penalty system that not only punishes mistakes but allows for a measure of reward for post-death effort: corpse runs in D2 not only retrieved your gear, they gave back 75% of the lost experience.

Carrot, stick. Stick, carrot.

PoE's death penalty is all stick and it's stupid.

if you ask me your suggestion is still way too easy/casual. Getting 75% with a single retrieved is too casual.

If you are aware of an Online MMO called anarchy Online. Their exp recoup work something like this.


for example = You lost 10% of you exp on death.

In order to regain back then 10% exp, you will need to kill monsters that worth 20% exp without dying again. This means after you die, you are getting a 50% buff on exp rate until you recoup all your exp.


Here is an example:

You died & lost 100,000 exp. If you kill a 1000 exp monster, you will be getting 1500 exp, you will be keep getting 50% extra exp until you recoup all that 100K you lost.

But that doesnt mean you can throw your body towards a monster. There will be a maximum exp limit that you can recoup. For example the system can only store up to 1M of exp(or 10 continuous death worth of exp), any additional chain death = a true net loss of exp.

on top of that the boss & monster in this game regen when no player are in the instance. So nobody can portal cheese kill.

I really wish such system is added into this game.

It will address zerging, but it should be limited regarding boss/monster regen when players aren't in the instance, so you could still portal out and in if needed. An increased regen rate by the time spent by the player not in the instance will do probably.

That is a great way to encourage staying alive and don't "rage quit" upon death, but it should also reset on every level up.

Not a bad way to address the death penalty and zerging problem at all...

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suszterpatt wrote:

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sofocle10000 wrote:

Volatile Blood

A rework of this mechanic and maybe a counterpart that affects ranged and/or casters would be necessary for a severe reduction in unjust deaths due to encountering and killing Volatile Blood Devourers, Plummeting Ursas or any other kind of "instantly" appearing danger next to your character.

I feel like this is my cue to reiterate the closest thing we have to an official statement from GGG on the matter:

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1627739/page/2

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Gary_GGG wrote:

Personally I find them mostly a gear/build check for melee. They ensure you have close to max resistances, and a decent amount of life/energy shield. I rarely die to them unless I'm undercapped on resistances.

I will also take Snorkle's word that GGG is trying to address the Volatile mechanic already, and hopefully it's rework should be ready for 3.0...

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鬼殺し wrote:

No aspersions cast upon Gary but I'm fairly sure he's a Support member, not an actual GGG dev. I strongly recommend against confusing the two.

Oh, I'm well aware that Gary's post is hardly official company policy. The sad commentary is that ever since that post, we've heard absolutely nothing from GGG regarding Volatiles. Not even a non-committal "we're aware of the problem". Which does little to dissuade us that they do, in fact, think that Volatiles are fine the way they are.

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Doomstryver wrote:

1. Remove instant logout. Before I drown in the tears of 'hardcore' players, removing this will allow them to tone down the oneshot bullshit. Without needing to balance around the idea of people being able to nope out of bad situations they got themselves into they can turn challenging fights into ones of attrition and sustain as opposed to split second reactions to insane burst. Bonus points for those on not so reliable connections as well! You won't instantly die if you get an internet blip.

How can't you see that it would be the opposite ???
If bosses were balanced around the fact that you cannot instant logout, it means that there need to be a significant threat to people disconnecting otherwise nothing changes, but for the game to become piss easy.


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PS : Aurabots can be very strong solo too, with a few tweaks.

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Fruz wrote:

How can't you see that it would be the opposite ???
If bosses were balanced around the fact that you cannot instant logout, it means that they need to be a significant threat to people disconnecting otherwise nothing changes, but for the game to become piss easy.


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PS : Aurabots can be very strong solo too, with a few tweaks.

If there is no need to burst people before they can hit their logout macro, then boss damage will be decreased. The fight will be more about conserving your resources than it will about dps and leech.

Therefore, if a player were to DC for a short duration (1-2s) it is unlikely they will be dead, just in a bad place :P You can't fix things fully for garbage connections.

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Doomstryver wrote:

If there is no need to burst people before they can hit their logout macro, then boss damage will be decreased. The fight will be more about conserving your resources than it will about dps and leech.

Therefore, if a player were to DC for a short duration (1-2s) it is unlikely they will be dead, just in a bad place :P You can't fix things fully for garbage connections.

Then anybody will be able to just logout since without damage spike, it will be much, much easier to see the danger coming, and since 1-2 sec would not be lethal, it would be even easier to log out and chicken out.
There is just no way around.

If you allow people with bad connections to survive most crashes, it means that people will be able to exploit it, period.

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Fruz wrote:

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Doomstryver wrote:

If there is no need to burst people before they can hit their logout macro, then boss damage will be decreased. The fight will be more about conserving your resources than it will about dps and leech.

Therefore, if a player were to DC for a short duration (1-2s) it is unlikely they will be dead, just in a bad place :P You can't fix things fully for garbage connections.

Then anybody will be able to just logout since without damage spike, it will be much, much easier to see the danger coming, and since 1-2 sec would not be lethal, it would be even easier to log out and chicken out.
There is just no way around.

If you allow people with bad connections to survive most crashes, it means that people will be able to exploit it, period.

There should be a 10 second timeout when logging out/dcing somewhere that isn't town or hideout :)

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Doomstryver wrote:

There should be a 10 second timeout when logging out/dcing somewhere that isn't town or hideout :)

Then people crashing will be penalized all the same.

I'm not saying that balancing around logging out instantly is the best way to do in PoE ( altho I do not mind it, I understand why it's there ), however if you do not want the spike damage and instant logout, it is more likely that people disconnecting from a crash will be more penalized than now.

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Darkkrows wrote:

This means after you die, you are getting a 50% buff on exp rate until you recoup all your exp.


Here is an example:

You died & lost 100,000 exp. If you kill a 1000 exp monster, you will be getting 1500 exp, you will be keep getting 50% extra exp until you recoup all that 100K you lost.

This one is what we need exactly, glad i read the posts this time,
cause i just wanted to say the same method anyways..

This thing would be great for new players too not only high-end ones..
Because there are always new things to experience and ppl might be afraid of trying,

example: The first time i tried Atziri, i didnt knew yet if im able to defeat her,
so i was afraid of death and only because of this, i leveled up and tried it with 0% exp.
...in the end i died till i lose all the portals, so that 0% exp method wasnt painful.

So in similar case, tryin out things on any percent of current exp,
with the bless in our hearts (to get atleast a buff for gettin back the loss faster)
would be the greatest implement in my opinion!

Below 80: no penalty at all. Free zerging of content.
Below 90: Lost xp is gained back rather quickly, unless you drop 60% with 6 deaths in a row.
After 90. I get in the habit of trying crazy shit once I leveled up, and I play longer periods of "stuff I can handle" to maybe grind a level or two, if I feel like it. When I die, I lose ~2-3 maps of xp.
After 92: I don't. Doesn't seem worth it to me.

I don't really like the current system, but I got so used to it that I would probably miss it.

Also, my 2c on the death penalty thing.


The purpose of the death penalty is to prevent players who frequently die from reaching very high levels, correct? Which is a good thing. At the same time, losing 10% of your XP to some out-of-the-blue oneshot (of which there are plenty in the game) is not fun. It also discourages people from challenging themselves, because one tough fight can mean losing your entire progress to the next level from just a few deaths. So here's what I'd do to fix the bad while keeping the good.

Remove XP loss altogether. Instead, when you die, your character gains a special, persistent debuff that stays with him even after logout. The debuff causes 50% less XP gain in Cruel (or whatever the post-Fall equivalent is), and 100% less XP gain in Merciless. This value can be eroded, 10% at a time, by slaying X million XP worth of enemies (before any modifiers of course). So after the first X million, it goes from 100% to 90%, and you start gaining XP again. After another X million, it goes to 80%, and so on. If you die again, the debuff effect is reset to its full value.

Let's look at the implications:

- People who die all the time still make no progress, because they never leave the "100% less XP" state.

- If you died once, there's virtually no penalty to jumping back into the same fight straight away and potentially dying again. So when you die for the first time, you sort of get a free pass to at least finish the content you were doing and enact your revenge on the sonofabitch who killed you. But if you want to start earning XP again, you'll have to stay alive going forward.

- Ostensibly, more challenging content grants more XP, and thus erodes the debuff quicker. This isn't really true in Shaped Strand of Exile, but in a more ideal world it would provide an incentive for people who just died to keep doing challenging content.

- Psychologically, the nebulous knowledge that your future XP gain is impacted is much less jarring than seeing your XP bar get obliterated in an instant. The end result may be the same, but the presentation is easier to digest.