Improve Trade & increase Craft

POE's market and craft needs a improvement we all know about it, but what should be done??

Main problems to be solved:

Item prices are twisted to too cheap or too expensive

Huge power gap between trader and non-trader players

Player's inclination to improve gear only in large steps

Theese are the main reasons why GGG don't make a better trade system, so something have to be done about it before, or POE will never have a a descent trade system
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1870097

So here's my idea: make NPCs pay a better price for items we find, increase drop rate of currency and decrease drop rate of rare items

adjusts also needed:

-Item recipes: to reflect the new prices item recipes have to be updated

-Remove 5 for 1 prophecy and make it a defaut item recipe

If it happens:
The value of the currency would decrease A LOT and this low value would make crafting more atractive to players of all levels

The offer of wild low lvl items in the market will decrease, and it's value will increase, this higher price and low value of currency will make ppl craft more and improve equip in smaler steps (like GGG wants)

Increase price of crafted low lvl items so you can sell your lvling items instead of scrap them.

At the same time BECAUSE crafting is cheaper the value of high end items will decrease and make playing easier for everyone

To get the perfect gear will NEVER be too easy especially if you have to craft them yourself

In the past I have played Dungeons and Dragons Online (DDO) where the "sink hole" for itens you find is the crafting system

In DDO you could recycle the items you find to get raw material to craft new itens. Well, we alredy have in POE all the raw material for crafting, and it's the currency, you just need to make NPCs pay a better value for them

This would open the door for a easier market system controled by npcs and that don't require player's attention

This NPC controled system would bring a series of benefits:

Show all offers to all players (not only the online players)

Make finding offers and exchange items easier (in game system available to inexperienced players) and increase demand (inexperienced players and players that have little time to trade)

Eliminate fake offers (a lot of ppl make fake offers just trying to reduce the price of items they what to buy)

Eliminate DND because the player's attention is not required to sell itens

Reduce server load (ppl don't have to stay online only to trade)


Lets make supply and demand control the value of items not the hardship of trade

This will for certain require a LARGE number of supply and price adjusts and maybe even a economist, but I'm trying once and for all solve the problem


Please, I need the help and ideas of other players. I know my idea may have problems but I'm here to discuss them my intetion is to put here the best ideas of everyone this thread have alredy been altered and will continue to do so

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CyberWizardB5 wrote:

POE's market and craft needs a improvement

really?

- master crafting trivialised the midgame progression wall
- trade chat searches got improved to a global, detailed search down to individual stats and ranges and trivialised endgame item exchange
- essences improved crafting to give a guaranteed affix

this all resulted in experienced players needing slightly more than one day to get to endgame.
there is no gear wall anymore, expept the one to get all items fully linked.

i don't think it's the lack of currency that prevents players crafting themselves, it's the fact that items are cheaper available (finding and getting them) through trade than by crafting.

increasing the currency drop rate will result in the currency upflow getting higher and some people richer. for casual to average players nothing will change since item price inflation will take care for them to stay poor.

the way the game is designed prevents meaningful changes to the fact that trade is superior to craft, if there are restrictions players will resort to advertising their items on external sites and drop trading.

ggg would have to seriously change the game play like they did in the china release to restore the trade/crafting balance and limit the divergency of progression of all types of players.

---

there is no easy solution for the trade/craft balance problem.

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cronus wrote:

- master crafting trivialised the midgame progression wall

getting a master lvl 8 is not trivial

"

cronus wrote:

- trade chat searches got improved to a global, detailed search down to individual stats and ranges and trivialised endgame item exchange

detailed search is not the problem the problem is the extremely high supply of wild items in opposition to crafted items

"

cronus wrote:

- essences improved crafting to give a guaranteed affix

The objective IS improve crafting and have more crafted items and less wild items in the market and one garanteed affix help low lvl players much more than high lvl ones

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cronus wrote:

this all resulted in experienced players needing slightly more than one day to get to endgame.
there is no gear wall anymore, expept the one to get all items fully linked.

The "item wall" is is broken by the high supply and low demand of items there's no way to control demand but the supply can be controled that is why I sugested decrease drop rate of rare items

"

cronus wrote:

i don't think it's the lack of currency that prevents players crafting themselves, it's the fact that items are cheaper available (finding and getting them) through trade than by crafting.

increasing the currency drop rate will result in the currency upflow getting higher and some people richer. for casual to average players nothing will change since item price inflation will take care for them to stay poor.

It is not the lack of currency but the high value of currency and low value of items, make currency more commun would decrease it's value and decrease drop rate of items will make them more valuable

Increase the crafting of low lvl items will only make the life of casual players easier

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cronus wrote:

the way the game is designed prevents meaningful changes to the fact that trade is superior to craft, if there are restrictions players will resort to advertising their items on external sites and drop trading.

Drop trade? Restriction? Did you read the post? The goal is remove the restrictions to a proper internal trade system, we are alredy using a external site to trade.

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cronus wrote:

ggg would have to seriously change the game play like they did in the china release to restore the trade/crafting balance and limit the divergency of progression of all types of players.

I don't know what happened in China but the change in supply DO have the potencial to make people change the way they craft and trade...

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cronus wrote:

there is no easy solution for the trade/craft balance problem.

No one said it's a easy solution, it will require several adjusts in drop rate over a very long time to reach the balance

"

cronus wrote:

- master crafting trivialised the midgame progression wall
- trade chat searches got improved to a global, detailed search down to individual stats and ranges and trivialised endgame item exchange
- essences improved crafting to give a guaranteed affix

Who the hell mastercrafts midgame????

Poe trade was unintended by the devs. They interfaced with it because the parsing was beating the crap out of the forum servers, but that doesn't have anything to do with crafting.

It serves to actually screw those midgame peeps as items that are not perfect = worthless. Giving them almost nothing to barter with but found currency or an alc crawl.

Essences are basically alc gambling with a hedged affix. Wonderful, but still gambling.

And who is dumb enough to use the essences early-midgame and not sit on them to level them up for endgame?

Same goes with prophecies. A coin in normal gets a prophecy, a coin in merc gets you a prophecy. Where is the incentive to use them early on?

There literally is no crafting in this game, at least in any meaningful sense. It's basically gambling or mitigated gambling.

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ewolow wrote:

Who the hell mastercrafts midgame????

i do. finding those 2 resists gloves with life is hard midgame, crafting 40 life on them is cheaper than buying them i guess.

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ewolow wrote:

Poe.trade ... doesn't have anything to do with crafting.

it made finding items much easier compared to trade chat. especially for those who need special affixes on their gear.

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ewolow wrote:

It serves to actually screw those midgame peeps as items that are not perfect = worthless.
Giving them almost nothing to barter with but found currency or an alc crawl.

that's the resulting problem of effective search on a global market.

agree.
a solution would be to show the potential buyer only a fraction of the available goods. poe does this indirectly having half the world being offline when people want to trade.

things would be better when goods from people being offline weren't searchable. a ingame trade mechanism would surely do this to keep prices up by limiting the offers.

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ewolow wrote:

And who is dumb enough to use the essences early-midgame and not sit on them to level them up for endgame?

i'm dumb?
because i figured that low level essences, due to the missing item level restriction, are perfect for making jewelery for the chaos orb recipe.

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ewolow wrote:

Same goes with prophecies. A coin in normal gets a prophecy, a coin in merc gets you a prophecy. Where is the incentive to use them early on?

there are those players who take a long time to merciless. and according to ggg they're not a minority.

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ewolow wrote:

There literally is no crafting in this game, at least in any meaningful sense. It's basically gambling or mitigated gambling.

yes, crambling ;)

if you got other suggestion on how to balance the progression in poe of nolifers and casuals differently, developers would be highly interested. and johnKeys!

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CyberWizardB5 wrote:

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cronus wrote:

master crafting trivialised the midgame progression wall

getting a master lvl 8 is not trivial

at midgame (end of cruel) your masters should be around level 6 already. good enough for crafting some cheap affixes.

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CyberWizardB5 wrote:

detailed search is not the problem the problem is the extremely high supply of wild items in opposition to crafted items
...
make currency more commun would decrease it's value and decrease drop rate of items will make them more valuable

yes, limiting rare item drop rates could also balance market prices. short term.

for balancing market prices long term you can either:
- limit supply (nerf drop rates / do not show all offers to all players / make finding offers harder / make desirable affixes rarer / do not force players to sell / allow fake offers / make item exchange harder)
- increase demand (have more new players playing your game / enlarge the game so enforce more item swaps for better gear)

and i don't think ggg will remove the rare item showers users choice to identify items or not.
i could rather see them implementing a new "premium" item class beside normal/magic/rare/unique.

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CyberWizardB5 wrote:

The goal is remove the restrictions to a proper internal trade system, we are alredy using a external site to trade.

a internal trading system would have more restrictions than we have now. in the chinese realm they're currently testing "effective item exchange but no effective search".
no way in hell a ingame solution for the main realm would have the current functionality of poe.trade and automated offline trading on top. if you mean that by saying "proper".

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cronus wrote:

at midgame (end of cruel) your masters should be around level 6 already. good enough for crafting some cheap affixes.

And what is the problem of having 1 good affix out of 6??

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cronus wrote:

yes, limiting rare item drop rates could also balance market prices. short term.

for balancing market prices long term you can either:
- limit supply (nerf drop rates / do not show all offers to all players / make finding offers harder / make desirable affixes rarer / do not force players to sell / allow fake offers / make item exchange harder)
- increase demand (have more new players playing your game / enlarge the game so enforce more item swaps for better gear)

and i don't think ggg will remove the rare item showers users choice to identify items or not.
i could rather see them implementing a new "premium" item class beside normal/magic/rare/unique.

Limit drop rate = nerf drop rate duhh

Cheaper crafting would compensate for "make desirable affixes rarer"

Do not force players to sell? And who is forcing you to sell now? And increase the value NPC pays for items would only increase profit of all players (especialy the ones that spend more time hunting)

And a npc controled trade system would exactly:

Show all offers to all players (not only the online players)

Make finding offers and exchange items easier (in game system available to inexperienced players) and increase demand (inexperienced players and players that have little time to trade)

Eliminate fake offers (a lot of ppl make fake offers just trying to reduce the price of items they what to buy)

Eliminate DND because the player attention is not required to sell itens

"

cronus wrote:

a internal trading system would have more restrictions than we have now. in the chinese realm they're currently testing "effective item exchange but no effective search".
no way in hell a ingame solution for the main realm would have the current functionality of poe.trade and automated offline trading on top. if you mean that by saying "proper".

Now you are contradicting yourself...

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cronus wrote:

- trade chat searches got improved to a global, detailed search down to individual stats and ranges and trivialised endgame item exchange

"

CyberWizardB5 wrote:

And who is forcing you to sell now?

it was an example on how to keep item prices up in a system with no item sink and a permanently running item supply.

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CyberWizardB5 wrote:

And a npc controled trade system

well, they excluded that option from being implemented.

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CyberWizardB5 wrote:

Now you are contradicting yourself...

one post was to show that trade already got easier since release, the other says that ggg has concerns that it got too easy since release with those improvements.

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cronus wrote:

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CyberWizardB5 wrote:

And who is forcing you to sell now?

it was an example on how to keep item prices up in a system with no item sink and a permanently running item supply.

With increase in prices paid by NPC if a item gets too cheap due lack of "item sink" ppl will start to sell them to the NPC so the NPC will be the "item sink" just as it is now but paing a better value instead of just scraps

"

cronus wrote:

"

CyberWizardB5 wrote:

And a npc controled trade system

well, they excluded that option from being implemented.

The idea is try to make GGG change mind by showing them another opition

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cronus wrote:

"

CyberWizardB5 wrote:

Now you are contradicting yourself...

one post was to show that trade already got easier since release, the other says that ggg has concerns that it got too easy since release with those improvements.

I know it alredy got easier (but not by the hands of GGG) but the idea is to make it even easier and for this we have to make GGG change their minds

"

CyberWizardB5 wrote:

With increase in prices paid by NPC if a item gets too cheap due lack of "item sink" ppl will start to sell them to the NPC so the NPC will be the "item sink" just as it is now but paing a better value instead of just scraps

yes, npc's paying you more if the item has high level affix tiers would be a valid option to decrease the item influx and keep prices up in sales.