I think a time to rework a reflect mechanics is come

Im ok with reflect myself.

Its there for a reason - to stop everyone playing glass cannon builds.

I think it should stay - its a better way to slow the clear speed meta progression than atlas of worlds is for end game mapping

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sofocle10000 wrote:

It's hard to die versus reflect if you actually leech back enough

One button, two cast (spell echo) and I die. It's very simple. If reflect monster appears in breach (a tons of enemies spawn into breach) - you can't react (especially if you use skills like arc with uncontrolled chains) and obviously have no time to swap gems or gear, because horde of enemies just obliterate you.

And, yes, not every build can leech back enough.

Also not even builds gave 20k+ ES.

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Miazga wrote:

Its there for a reason - to stop everyone playing glass cannon builds.

Why not? I have enough HP+ES to not die in regular situations. Almost all my deaths is reflect. And I don't like builds with 15k dps to 'farm t3 maps'.

Reflect in current state is just limitation to builds. If you can leech you full HP in two seconds, have chaos damage (that can't be reflected) or do not deal damage dirrectly - you will not have problems with the reflect in any case.

In Prophecy I played for 11-arrow TS build and I died many times on single monsters with reflect. I had to lower my DPS in three times to stop dying. Same HP, same ES, same EV and other stats, but much less damage. Just because reflect. It's stupid.

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DoEFotGS wrote:

If you can leech you full HP in two seconds, have chaos damage (that can't be reflected) or do not deal damage dirrectly - you will not have problems with the reflect in any case.

I find it a good thing. The game should implement limitation to builds, to prevent going all out on DPS.
I mean you can go for it, but if you die to reflect or 1-shot mechanics its your own fault for not balancing your build correctly.

GGG implement many thngs to slow your game progression, like LAB, atals of worlds, trials and so on, and although there is a very large group complaining about it, nothing is being done.

At the moment, reflect is only a problem for minority of players, who want to go all out on DPS and stick to clear speed meta.

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DoEFotGS wrote:

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

It's hard to die versus reflect if you actually leech back enough

One button, two cast (spell echo) and I die. It's very simple. If reflect monster appears in breach (a tons of enemies spawn into breach) - you can't react (especially if you use skills like arc with uncontrolled chains) and obviously have no time to swap gems or gear, because horde of enemies just obliterate you.

And, yes, not every build can leech back enough.

Also not even builds gave 20k+ ES.

"

Miazga wrote:

Its there for a reason - to stop everyone playing glass cannon builds.

Why not? I have enough HP+ES to not die in regular situations. Almost all my deaths is reflect. And I don't like builds with 15k dps to 'farm t3 maps'.

Reflect in current state is just limitation to builds. If you can leech you full HP in two seconds, have chaos damage (that can't be reflected) or do not deal damage dirrectly - you will not have problems with the reflect in any case.

In Prophecy I played for 11-arrow TS build and I died many times on single monsters with reflect. I had to lower my DPS in three times to stop dying. Same HP, same ES, same EV and other stats, but much less damage. Just because reflect. It's stupid.

If it kills you due to high enough damage without considering reflect mitigation you are doing it wrong according to the game...

Of course they should drop the numbers of pinatas and raise their difficulty to compensate, and also improve the quality of drops while reducing their numbers, but that would mean that they encourage pursuing a slower pace instead of the AoE speed clearing meta and we can't have that, can we?

One button, two casts due to Spell Echo and dead versus reflect just says that you have too much damage for your EHP pool.

Of course Vaal Pact should be limited by leech rate even for ES and start from a 12.5% per second, so 8 seconds needed for full pool, and go up to 20% for a cool 5 seconds of leech for full pool no matter the amount of damage, so people would pay attention to other mechanics not just the Uber Sponge...

I also stated lots of times that reflect should be reworked to reward tactical approaches more or even removed, just like the actual Volatile Blood, if the damage would be dropped on a large scale basis, just as the EHP of various bosses should be tuned more too...

GGG unfortunately went with reflect as damage cap and kill your character opportunity, next to Volatiles, DD and Bearers/Heralds at time as those are the dangers that actually kill you in this game, instead of monsters most of the time...

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DoEFotGS wrote:

Reflect in current state is just limitation to builds.

Bingo. 10 points for finding the reason to be for this mechanic

it is to
a) limit dps/tankines ratio (players without HARD incentive wont ever care about tankiness. the dps greed is very strong in target demographic)
b) make player understand, value and use defensive options (like purities noone ever uses and that cut ele reflect by a significant margin - because 'much dps is lost without offensive auras'..)
c) remove the risk (this one however materialised anyway) of game becoming a stupid clickfest where nothing is challenging anymore. game without a challenge is not a game. it is a broken toy.

ggg's balance blunders of last 2 years turned this game into something that can be trivialized in so many ways that it no longer deserve to be called 'a game'. it is a pick meta builds and right click into victory. most of these do not even need any investment to work so the farming is optional

Hated reflect too. It was my archnemesis. And then i finally found my 4 staffs and since then it is just easy i never died again to reflect.

A part of character development in this kind of games is the effective offensive-to-defensive ability ratio.
Reflect is a hard counter to glass cannons and prevents from facerolling/trivializing the game, or working around nonconceptual "unbalanced" builds.

If players are allowed, encouraged, or urged to play with emphasis on damage, it's more of an overall balance issue, rather than a reflect mechanic problem.

Would prefer the GD reflect though, it's more mechanical.

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venguardx wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

how much damage are you people doing? Whats ur skills and ur tooltips?

Reason I ask is that I play a lot of characters, an awful lot, and I dont think any of them could really die to reflect on a rare mob in its current form. Some might take a fair chunk of damage but I dont think I can remember the last time I played a character who died to a reflect rare.

43K Bladeflurry 0.14 attack speed

43k av damage tooltip flurry? thats completely excessive, even half that amount is excessive.

Abyssus phys to lightning dual wield doryanis offhand ignore resist inquisitor wearing a carcass jack aka I have no defenses + 160% life on tree no counting jewels and you have 3 item slots with no life rolls dedicated to dps + crit multi on every jewel with 3x damage auras and 2x damage vaal auras not a single defense aura equipped... yeah Im not surprised at all if you die to reflect. I feel like reflect rightly exists to kill a character like that, thats my take on it.

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DoEFotGS wrote:

This is exactly why my crit arc inquisitor have 100+ deaths at lvl 90. A half of them happened because uncontrolled chain meets reflect offscreen. The remaining half happened because I opened brech and I need to clear that breach faster, because horde of enemies that can simply kill me... then BAM - I just kill myself.

cwdt warlords mark + vaal pact, if you have that going on you still die to reflect mobs then theres probably something seriously out of balance going on with ur dps to defense ratios.

Not a huge fan of reflect, and of the fact that people just go chaos because of it ( it definitely influenced me to go chaos damage ).

However, I find it really sad, that many people cannot seem to play map with below 200k dps ..........

Like seriously, you don't need that much.
But GGG is the main culprit here, with all that powercreep.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

"

venguardx wrote:

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

how much damage are you people doing? Whats ur skills and ur tooltips?

Reason I ask is that I play a lot of characters, an awful lot, and I dont think any of them could really die to reflect on a rare mob in its current form. Some might take a fair chunk of damage but I dont think I can remember the last time I played a character who died to a reflect rare.

43K Bladeflurry 0.14 attack speed

43k av damage tooltip flurry? thats completely excessive, even half that amount is excessive.

Abyssus phys to lightning dual wield doryanis offhand ignore resist inquisitor wearing a carcass jack aka I have no defenses + 160% life on tree no counting jewels and you have 3 item slots with no life rolls dedicated to dps + crit multi on every jewel with 3x damage auras and 2x damage vaal auras not a single defense aura equipped... yeah Im not surprised at all if you die to reflect. I feel like reflect rightly exists to kill a character like that, thats my take on it.

"

DoEFotGS wrote:

This is exactly why my crit arc inquisitor have 100+ deaths at lvl 90. A half of them happened because uncontrolled chain meets reflect offscreen. The remaining half happened because I opened brech and I need to clear that breach faster, because horde of enemies that can simply kill me... then BAM - I just kill myself.

cwdt warlords mark + vaal pact, if you have that going on you still die to reflect mobs then theres probably something seriously out of balance going on with ur dps to defense ratios.

I can kill every boss in the game in seconds I don't need much defense as everything dies on the screen before it can attack...but due to one single game mechanic that is unavoidable (good game play you can move or avoid stuff) I need to reduce my DPS by 70%+ just to be safe? Diablo 3 had this same problem with reflect, they fixed it by having a Timed reflect, I dont die to normal reflect mobs that I can see as I can pop my flasks and drop a totem to kill it, I die to the ones in Breachs that cant be seen because the ring has no reached them yet.