Path of Exile 1 Gameplay Help and Discussion - Is weapon crit chance multiplicative with the rest? - Forum

It would almost seem so, the crit chance on a weapon is factored into the base stat on the weapon info box, which in turn is multiplied with you overall crit chance?	Posted by Sairony#1407 on Feb 2, 2012, 11:55:59 AM Quote this Post
As far as i know it is not. Try to calculate your crit chance manually. You will realize it is only an additive factor to the weapon base crit chance Also attackspeed seems to behave the same way. I would be thankful if someone from GGG could clarify on this, because it is very confusing that it is multiplied into the base values of a weapon like increased physical damage. Last edited by Headhorr#5386 on Feb 2, 2012, 1:09:28 PM	Posted by Headhorr#5386 on Feb 2, 2012, 12:58:09 PM Quote this Post
" Malice wrote: Critical Strikes Whenever you use a skill or attack, you have a chance to deal a Critical Strike. Critical Strikes are rolled on a per-action basis, not per-monster. So each time you use a skill, the Critical Strike roll is made once and only once. If you roll a Critical Strike, you will deal Critical damage to all enemies hit by the skill. Critical Strikes do more damage than normal, based on your Critical Strike Damage Multiplier. All characters have a base Critical Strike multiplier of 150%, meaning a critical strike does 150% of normal damage. This multiplier can be increased with various skills and modifiers on items. For instance, with a multiplier of 250%, if you deal a Critical Strike with attack that normally does 100 damage, you will instead deal 250 damage. The chance to deal a critical strike is taken from the weapon used to perform an attack or attack skill, and in the case of spells, each spell has it's own critical strike chance, which is listed in the skill gem's description. This value can be increased by increased critical strike chance modifiers from spells and gear. For example, if you are using a weapon with 5% chance to crit, and you have 50% increased critical strike chance, you will have a 7.5% chance to score a critical strike. Critical chance can not be less than 5% nor more than 95%. Critical Strike Rating and Critical Strike Damage Multiplier are calculated separately for spells and weapon attacks. All weapons have a base Critical Strike chance listed on them. This only affects your chance to critical for attacks made with that weapon. It does not affect your chance to critical with a spell, or attacks made with another weapon when dual-wielding. Seeing as it's called the critical strike multiplier, I'd say it's multiplicative. As far as I know, it multiplies every single component of your damage by the crit multiplier, assuming your strike is a critical one. Urist McDwarfy has been happy lately. He admired an exceptional ARPG recently. He took joy in slaughter lately. He has been attacked by the dead recently. Check out the Path of Exile wiki: http://en.pathofexilewiki.com	Posted by UristMcDwarfy#1339 on Feb 2, 2012, 2:09:15 PM Quote this Post
i think the point is: the local crit modifier on weapons which is factored into the shown basestat of a weapon like this Unavailable seems to be additive to all your other increased crit chance mods. the question is: Why is it then multiplied ontop of the weapon base crit chance. Numeric example: Based on the wand i just postet with 11.5% crit chance you would assume that with 100% increased crit chance your total crit chance would be 23% (11.52) But instead your crit chance is 21.5% (102.15) based on this i say that it is very confusing that it is shown multiplied as a base stat of the weapon. I have the same behavior on the "base" attackspeed of weapons. Some items in this post are currently unavailable.	Posted by Headhorr#5386 on Feb 2, 2012, 2:26:27 PM Quote this Post
" Headhorr wrote: i think the point is: the local crit modifier on weapons which is factored into the shown basestat of a weapon like this Unavailable seems to be additive to all your other increased crit chance mods. the question is: Why is it then multiplied ontop of the weapon base crit chance. Numeric example: Based on the wand i just postet with 11.5% crit chance you would assume that with 100% increased crit chance your total crit chance would be 23% (11.52) But instead your crit chance is 21.5% (102.15) based on this i say that it is very confusing that it is shown multiplied as a base stat of the weapon. I have the same behavior on the "base" attackspeed of weapons. Ah, I think I misunderstood the question if this is the source of the confusion. " Mark_GGG wrote: Yes. increased/decreased are additive, more/less are multiplicative. So the "15% increased critical strike chance with this weapon" mod will be additive with the base crit chance of the weapon, as will your increased critical strike chance passives. Sorry, I thought the question was something more along the lines of whether the crit multiplier was strictly multiplicative. Basically, if you don't see the word "more" in there, it's additive. Urist McDwarfy has been happy lately. He admired an exceptional ARPG recently. He took joy in slaughter lately. He has been attacked by the dead recently. Check out the Path of Exile wiki: http://en.pathofexilewiki.com Last edited by UristMcDwarfy#1339 on Feb 2, 2012, 2:43:32 PM Some items in this post are currently unavailable.	Posted by UristMcDwarfy#1339 on Feb 2, 2012, 2:41:30 PM Quote this Post
Edit: " UristMcDwarfy wrote: Ah, I think I misunderstood the question if this is the source of the confusion. Okay, that's said^^ - It took me so long to write all the text below I got 'out-posted'. I'll keep my 'work' posted 'as is' even though it may not help the discussion anymore. _______________________________________________________ pre-edit: " UristMcDwarfy wrote: Seeing as it's called the critical strike multiplier, I'd say it's multiplicative. If the intention of your explication was to provide an answer to Sairony's and Headhorr's questions, I'd like to point out, that it seems to me like both of them are talking about the mechanics behind the chance to crit, which is a different mechanic than the critical strike damage multiplier's (which I understand you also correctly pointed out " UristMcDwarfy wrote: assuming your strike is a critical one ). Following part of your statement " UristMcDwarfy wrote: Seeing as it's called the critical strike multiplier however, cannot possibly be applied to the chance to crit mechanics by just deducing information given by the quote of Malice's mechanics thread you provided Spoiler " Malice wrote: Critical Strikes Whenever you use a skill or attack, you have a chance to deal a Critical Strike. Critical Strikes are rolled on a per-action basis, not per-monster. So each time you use a skill, the Critical Strike roll is made once and only once. If you roll a Critical Strike, you will deal Critical damage to all enemies hit by the skill. Critical Strikes do more damage than normal, based on your Critical Strike Damage Multiplier. All characters have a base Critical Strike multiplier of 150%, meaning a critical strike does 150% of normal damage. This multiplier can be increased with various skills and modifiers on items. For instance, with a multiplier of 250%, if you deal a Critical Strike with attack that normally does 100 damage, you will instead deal 250 damage. The chance to deal a critical strike is taken from the weapon used to perform an attack or attack skill, and in the case of spells, each spell has it's own critical strike chance, which is listed in the skill gem's description. This value can be increased by increased critical strike chance modifiers from spells and gear. For example, if you are using a weapon with 5% chance to crit, and you have 50% increased critical strike chance, you will have a 7.5% chance to score a critical strike. Critical chance can not be less than 5% nor more than 95%. Critical Strike Rating and Critical Strike Damage Multiplier are calculated separately for spells and weapon attacks. All weapons have a base Critical Strike chance listed on them. This only affects your chance to critical for attacks made with that weapon. It does not affect your chance to critical with a spell, or attacks made with another weapon when dual-wielding. http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/11707 - since the mechanically relevant term 'multiplier' is only ever used in combination with the critical strike damage mechanic and not the chance to crit mechanic. If your intention was to provide information about the critical strike damage multiplier's mechanics, the statement is correct (regarding Malice's post) - but I feel it neither helps Sairony's nor Headhorr's point. However: " Malice wrote: For example, if you are using a weapon with 5% chance to crit, and you have 50% increased critical strike chance, you will have a 7.5% chance to score a critical strike. The increased critical strike chance is muliplied with the weapons chance to crit. I guess that is the point UristMcDwarfy wants to make. Another point relevant to the argument may relate to critical strike chance modifiers. Do these modifiers stack additive? So if one's 50% critical strike chance modifier gets increased by another +50% crit chance (through passives/equip/gems) it results in a 10% chance to crit on a weapon with 5% base crit chance? [The Prison] Crawl a text-based dungeon - http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/26299 Last edited by Azhubham#4599 on Feb 2, 2012, 3:33:29 PM	Posted by Azhubham#4599 on Feb 2, 2012, 3:11:37 PM Quote this Post
Yupp, I'm wondering about the exact same thing as Headhorr. I'll try to play around with my items and see how it's calculated next time I log in. Marks words seems definite, even if he was talking about another area at that point. In any case, if it isn't multiplicative it should be changed so that the base on the item is not altered in blue imo.	Posted by Sairony#1407 on Feb 2, 2012, 6:13:45 PM Quote this Post
Okay, now that's its clearer what this thread is about, this does seem like a potential problem. I will talk to Chris about it at some point. Currently, the increased critical strike chance on a weapon is a generic additive increase, meaning that the crit chance value showed in blue on the weapon is misleading if you have other increases. This is different to how damage increases on weapons work, where they are separate bonuses which change the base damage of the weapon to the value shown in blue, and all other modifiers work from that new base value. The are still "increased" rather than "more" because they do apply additively with other modifiers of the same type - i.e. other local, on-weapon damage increases - but this point is moot as I don't think it's possible for there to be multiplies of those at the moment on one weapon, so how they would stack if there were doesn't really matter.	Posted by Mark_GGG on Feb 2, 2012, 6:39:12 PM Grinding Gear Games Quote this Post
Mark, please note that attacks speed has the same behavior	Posted by Headhorr#5386 on Feb 2, 2012, 7:22:04 PM Quote this Post
" Headhorr wrote: Mark, please note that attacks speed has the same behavior I'm not entirely sure what you mean, as attack speed works differently to damage in that the weapon displays attacks per second, which is a different thing to attack speed (but is dependent on what the actual value of attack speed is). If you're referring to how the increased/more distinction distinguishes additive/multiplicative modifiers then that's standard across the whole game (although there are a very few corner cases which make it hairy in places). If you're referring to ones on weapons modifying the base values and thus not adding to other increases from off the weapons, then a cursory inspection suggests this is not, in fact, the case - which means something probably ought to change there. I'll look into that when I have more time and confirm how that's working.	Posted by Mark_GGG on Feb 2, 2012, 8:38:17 PM Grinding Gear Games Quote this Post