[2.6] CRIT HoWA BF/ST Raider [13k ES, 60k BF/265k GMP ST DPS, Stun-immune] [4 sec Chayula kill]

How much ES are you guys sitting at? I wonder if I can pull of going LL since I already have a 6L shavs and don't really want to sell it.
Invalesco! It's been awhile since I've seen you around the forums. I followed many of your builds guides back in beta (I think is was beta). Your builds went a long way into helping me understand this game so I wanted to say thanks first of all and glad to see you back.

This time around you have designed a build I am currently in the process of building in standard. I have a ranger with a free respec and I have played just enough BHC to guy two HoWAs and then RIPed them to standard! Turns out you have the same idea I did. So I wanted to run a couple things by you and get your thoughts.

1) I have been lucky enough to chance of pair of skyforths and I have been desperately trying to find a build to use them with. Although it is clear you don't believe they fit this build as well as other build and wouldn't recommend buying them for this build, I assume if you already had them you would probably use them. In regards to using skyforths, this also opens up the possibility of using HoT-CoH-Conductivity/Ele weakness. I am a big fan of "automatic builds" so this curse utility is right up my alley. Ultimatley, if you had skyforths what do you think of the below tree as a starting point for a crit, skyforth, HoWA build?

Spoiler
http://www.poeplanner.com/AAQAANsSAABrr-vn6vkzlwYF-RXw-WOVzO0_VP695jfUUUfnVCT9_97e-KR4wdWjiu4OVvrdRmOnEYH8xQ2NFfZieQAGW69OKiPTbyeaao9gkAoZisM6KjibtYTFJIsPqxa_bWzssIwLuXw2PVWFpcu1SBvIz93xiuOEDdFjQxEvKwpd8ioLcFKJ04w2DkgRlpOVrTMZ13_GwcXsGCy_FdeGrlZjj_rQ0F9qkye-iqEvbAsi9G0Zl_RSUz1fEVA1uacrl5VMsyBuUDDQH-_rFyZ6hNCtQdBfcINtPL7Y1QAAAAAA


2) Why do you take the frenzy charge over the power charge in merciless? Since the build is certainly starved for crit what are your thoughts on taking an extra power charge?

3) I am having a lot of trouble choosing the best links for this build as there so many great choices. After reading it seems you are having the same internal struggle. Without doing any actual this is combination that seems best with alternative options. What are your thoughts these days?

BF - AoE/CE - Crit Strikes - WED - Light Pen - Ele Focus

I leave out faster attacks which seems wrong and added lightning seems like it could be very good as well. Crit damage per most builds these days probably isn't as good.


Anyway I would appreciate your thoughts when you have a chance. If you're curious the gear I'm planning on using is on my character called Crux_CB.


Last edited by Cruxation on Dec 24, 2016 10:25:24 AM
What would you change about this build if you had skyforths and 50 exalts to invest?
"
Completed 26 ChallengesZugas wrote:
How much ES are you guys sitting at? I wonder if I can pull of going LL since I already have a 6L shavs and don't really want to sell it.


I did consider going LL actually! But I'm not sure if the added damage from another aura fully justifies the loss of defensive capability though. Perhaps u can try it out and let us know?

"
Cruxation wrote:
Invalesco! It's been awhile since I've seen you around the forums. I followed many of your builds guides back in beta (I think is was beta). Your builds went a long way into helping me understand this game so I wanted to say thanks first of all and glad to see you back.

This time around you have designed a build I am currently in the process of building in standard. I have a ranger with a free respec and I have played just enough BHC to guy two HoWAs and then RIPed them to standard! Turns out you have the same idea I did. So I wanted to run a couple things by you and get your thoughts.

1) I have been lucky enough to chance of pair of skyforths and I have been desperately trying to find a build to use them with. Although it is clear you don't believe they fit this build as well as other build and wouldn't recommend buying them for this build, I assume if you already had them you would probably use them. In regards to using skyforths, this also opens up the possibility of using HoT-CoH-Conductivity/Ele weakness. I am a big fan of "automatic builds" so this curse utility is right up my alley. Ultimatley, if you had skyforths what do you think of the below tree as a starting point for a crit, skyforth, HoWA build?

Spoiler
http://www.poeplanner.com/AAQAANsSAABrr-vn6vkzlwYF-RXw-WOVzO0_VP695jfUUUfnVCT9_97e-KR4wdWjiu4OVvrdRmOnEYH8xQ2NFfZieQAGW69OKiPTbyeaao9gkAoZisM6KjibtYTFJIsPqxa_bWzssIwLuXw2PVWFpcu1SBvIz93xiuOEDdFjQxEvKwpd8ioLcFKJ04w2DkgRlpOVrTMZ13_GwcXsGCy_FdeGrlZjj_rQ0F9qkye-iqEvbAsi9G0Zl_RSUz1fEVA1uacrl5VMsyBuUDDQH-_rFyZ6hNCtQdBfcINtPL7Y1QAAAAAA


2) Why do you take the frenzy charge over the power charge in merciless? Since the build is certainly starved for crit what are your thoughts on taking an extra power charge?

3) I am having a lot of trouble choosing the best links for this build as there so many great choices. After reading it seems you are having the same internal struggle. Without doing any actual this is combination that seems best with alternative options. What are your thoughts these days?

BF - AoE/CE - Crit Strikes - WED - Light Pen - Ele Focus

I leave out faster attacks which seems wrong and added lightning seems like it could be very good as well. Crit damage per most builds these days probably isn't as good.


Anyway I would appreciate your thoughts when you have a chance. If you're curious the gear I'm planning on using is on my character called Crux_CB.


Thanks for the welcome crux! :)

1) Personally, I think that if you have skyforth you're actually better off going for a non-HoWA build, reason being that for HoWA to be better than an excellent rare ele dps weapon, you really need to traverse the tree to get that INT up so as to make the damage from HoWA be good. That tree you've provided is similar to the one that I ran some calculations on a page or two before. I think it only provides extremely marginal (if any) increase in DPS for a strong drop/sacrifice in survivability/ES/Res.

2) My build is optimised more for bosses rather than the usual white/blue/rares. I took the frenzy charge because it is possible to sustain frenzy charges versus bosses compared to power charges for a non-skyforth character.

3) I would agree with that link combination. However, do take note that once you use Ele Focus you should use blasphemy/auras rather that HoT CoH auras because ele focus means you won't be able to trigger shock to trigger the HoT. Added lightning based on my calculations is a bit equivocal. It can be stronger or weaker than incr. crit strikes depending on your crit chance/multi. It's usually weaker. Faster attacks can be left out if you've already got >6 APS from enough high base IAS imo.

"
What would you change about this build if you had skyforths and 50 exalts to invest?


If I had skyforths, I would drop stun immunity (and ensure I get the 80% chance to avoid stun on the boots), and would probably use the following tree:


Note: the tree is not optimised yet, but the final tree will likely be similar.
Build of the Week 14
The first Righteous Fire/Non-Shavronne's/Shavronne's HC
Shameless self-proclaimed theory-crafting extraordinaire and forum crusader
"
I did consider going LL actually! But I'm not sure if the added damage from another aura fully justifies the loss of defensive capability though. Perhaps u can try it out and let us know?


I was considering using the new upgraded eye amulet but loosing the flat stats is probably a bad choice.
Playing the more conventional non-crit and no-unwavering-stance build, but will join the discussion here anyways, since the HoWA are still the defining thing :)
Got a couple of questions:

1) May I ask how much avg dmg you get with charges up? Just so I can actually compare it with non-crit.

2) One big problem for me is the low chance to hit at around 80%. It's hard to get accu on gear when u need so much res and int on it. I consider Astramentis over a rare amu just for the huge dex boost giving flat accu and attack speed. For crit builds the accu is even double important!

3) How is reflect for you? You can't dodge since you use US. Is the leech enough for you? I definitely feel the pain even tho i have around 45% evasion and have comparably low hit chance.

4) How important is inc wed in comparism to added int? I experimented with different amus. I currently use one with 107 int and compared it with a 45 int + 35 wed amu. The DPS stayed pretty much the same while the ES obviously dropped by a lot. What would be the optimal number for inc wed and int for the endgame?

PS: Playing in BHC, had one pathfinder version to lvl 91 and died. Currently rerolling as raider at lvl 85.
Last edited by LuckYEiner on Dec 25, 2016 5:24:02 AM
Thanks for the response. Certainly I can appreciate that skyforths may not shine in this build like some others but I did some quick calcs and once I divine my HoWAs I should be at 960+ int with my current gear. I'm going to attempt to use them and get the extra charge from the bandits. That'll give me 6 power charges and 6 frenzy charges. My concern is not having enough crit to outweigh the consistency of ele overload which seems to be an excellent option for this particular build as well. Hopefully I can get the crit chance high enough to feel good.

Also thanks for reminding me how HoT works especially with ele focus. I looked into running a blasphemy with discipline, HoT and wrath but it would take a massive investment in reduced mana nodes and lv4 enlighten gems so i think I'll be looking elsewhere. I'm considering trying to drop discipline and run a blasphemy ele weakness or conductivity instead. Then I would invest in more ES than most HoWA builds to compensate if possible. I'm not sure i have good enough gear for that though.


Last edited by Cruxation on Dec 25, 2016 3:17:38 PM
"
Completed 10 ChallengesLuckYEiner wrote:
Playing the more conventional non-crit and no-unwavering-stance build, but will join the discussion here anyways, since the HoWA are still the defining thing :)
Got a couple of questions:

1) May I ask how much avg dmg you get with charges up? Just so I can actually compare it with non-crit.

2) One big problem for me is the low chance to hit at around 80%. It's hard to get accu on gear when u need so much res and int on it. I consider Astramentis over a rare amu just for the huge dex boost giving flat accu and attack speed. For crit builds the accu is even double important!

3) How is reflect for you? You can't dodge since you use US. Is the leech enough for you? I definitely feel the pain even tho i have around 45% evasion and have comparably low hit chance.

4) How important is inc wed in comparism to added int? I experimented with different amus. I currently use one with 107 int and compared it with a 45 int + 35 wed amu. The DPS stayed pretty much the same while the ES obviously dropped by a lot. What would be the optimal number for inc wed and int for the endgame?

PS: Playing in BHC, had one pathfinder version to lvl 91 and died. Currently rerolling as raider at lvl 85.


1) IIRC it's around 9k+. but that char hasn't been optimised properly yet

2) Ya u need to get at least 2-3 pieces of gear with +accuracy on it. I found astramentis too expensive so i just got a random rare ammy with +60 int and 300+ accuracy on it to make do.

3) The leech is enough for me yup, but I also try not to go ham on reflect rares. As in I don't hold blade flurry down to hit it at maxed charged level. I just take swipes at it so as to reduce the damage dealt to it (and hence to myself).

4) It depends very much on your overall tree and INT level. For instance, if your int is already 1000, spending 1 point on 10 int is equiv to 1% more damage, while spending that 1 point on 10% ele damage will equate to more damage than that 10 int. If you're not going crit, you'll be needing alot of incr. wed to keep up with a non-crit build. That said, non-crit builds as raider tend to match up very well to their crit counterparts. They will only fall away at the end once the crit counterparts get better gear.

"
Cruxation wrote:
Thanks for the response. Certainly I can appreciate that skyforths may not shine in this build like some others but I did some quick calcs and once I divine my HoWAs I should be at 960+ int with my current gear. I'm going to attempt to use them and get the extra charge from the bandits. That'll give me 6 power charges and 6 frenzy charges. My concern is not having enough crit to outweigh the consistency of ele overload which seems to be an excellent option for this particular build as well. Hopefully I can get the crit chance high enough to feel good.

Also thanks for reminding me how HoT works especially with ele focus. I looked into running a blasphemy with discipline, HoT and wrath but it would take a massive investment in reduced mana nodes and lv4 enlighten gems so i think I'll be looking elsewhere. I'm considering trying to drop discipline and run a blasphemy ele weakness or conductivity instead. Then I would invest in more ES than most HoWA builds to compensate if possible. I'm not sure i have good enough gear for that though.


Ya I think that it will be very gear dependent. Nonetheless, if you can make it work it will be quite remarkable. Looking forward to seeing your char!
Build of the Week 14
The first Righteous Fire/Non-Shavronne's/Shavronne's HC
Shameless self-proclaimed theory-crafting extraordinaire and forum crusader
I am finding this build is quite gear dependent. I have included my gear below for reference but I had to invest in a lot of energy shield nodes just to hit 8.5k with discipline up. I am trying out 6 power charges and 6 frenzy charges. My damage is at 12.3k once the charges are up (7.8k in hideout). Charges are both pretty easy to keep up (i have skyforths) but when they do drop off you really feel it. My crit chance is 64% with all power charges with 250% crit multi and I am using a diamond flask which makes it feel better. The worst part thus far about this build is accuracy. I also have 6.2 aps with frenzies up which feels good. I am only sitting at 85% and it doesn't feel great yet. That being said I have (relatively) cheap gear if you ignore the skyforths which really only make gaining power charges easier. The good news is so far i only have 4 ascendancy points so i will gain some more damage and elemental status immunity in the future. My gems are also somewhat under leveled.

Spoiler


I am curious how this stacks up with what your seeing invalesco. Granted I still gems and ascendancy point to get I'm curious if you're seeing similar results.


"
Cruxation wrote:
I am finding this build is quite gear dependent. I have included my gear below for reference but I had to invest in a lot of energy shield nodes just to hit 8.5k with discipline up. I am trying out 6 power charges and 6 frenzy charges. My damage is at 12.3k once the charges are up (7.8k in hideout). Charges are both pretty easy to keep up (i have skyforths) but when they do drop off you really feel it. My crit chance is 64% with all power charges with 250% crit multi and I am using a diamond flask which makes it feel better. The worst part thus far about this build is accuracy. I also have 6.2 aps with frenzies up which feels good. I am only sitting at 85% and it doesn't feel great yet. That being said I have (relatively) cheap gear if you ignore the skyforths which really only make gaining power charges easier. The good news is so far i only have 4 ascendancy points so i will gain some more damage and elemental status immunity in the future. My gems are also somewhat under leveled.

Spoiler


I am curious how this stacks up with what your seeing invalesco. Granted I still gems and ascendancy point to get I'm curious if you're seeing similar results.


I personally feel that skyforths are a little unnecessary. Your tree/build based on skyforth isn't working because you're not traversing the tree. You're not stacking up on INT but instead on power charges and frenzy charges alone which isn't going to work. That's part of the reason why you're feeling low on ES and low on DPS.

Speaking of which, I've ended up optimising the build a little again:



If you're using Skyforth I would personally recommend this version instead of the one you're using:
Spoiler
https://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAABAIBAO4Oo4r5Y5XM7T831JAKW69OKiPTbyePYFFH5-qv68M6KjjQ0F9qj_rsGCy_FdeGrlZjwcV_xhGWk5WtMxnXDkhd8ncHhxOcpG0ZNbmnKxFQ_94k_edUYnn8xQ2NwdUajw18FfakeN74xBWTJ2wL73xMs5eV9zKSfdwjmG_lzz1fUlOX9GNDDdHjhPba-wkZiiL0FyZ6hNCtQdBfcINtPL7Y1QAGKgtwUow2-TPKSl-whMWbteq6idOaanC7vopvnoMJRnG0DMrTFfAF-ZcGPAVXySj6uJMc3OvuMtFFR8BmrfEYXTzvaPKvbAthxq5yqcT2jxrZW6EvIG5QMA==


Also, if you have such a high crit chance you might wanna try out incr. crit damage vs elemental overload instead.
Build of the Week 14
The first Righteous Fire/Non-Shavronne's/Shavronne's HC
Shameless self-proclaimed theory-crafting extraordinaire and forum crusader
Last edited by Invalesco on Dec 28, 2016 7:06:19 AM

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