Nothing wrong with Blade Flurry, it's not OP it just doesn't suck like typical melee
" That's some bullshit right there! Destroying it is pointless. Balancing it is necessary. most of the highest level builds are bladevortex, and they started as bladevortex as soon as the gem was available. " I play mostly selffound, and I can tell you for a fact that you can make a shaper viable build with bladevortex on less than a 12 ex budget. " Do even know the damage calculation formula for bladevortex? Are you aware that bladevortex deals a multiple of its tooltip? It seems like you don't. " It had 50 spinning blades, it has been reduced to 20 while buffing its damage by +60% and freeing up a gem link. Bladevortex hasn't been nerfed, it has been buffed. Get your facts right. [quote="ScrotieMcB"]It's just, like, people's opinions, man. But I cannot respect motherf♪♫♫♪rs calling something a simulator, when it isn't one.[/quote] Mors edited this post first. Last edited by Sure_K4y on Nov 20, 2016, 10:31:30 AM
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Under the worst case scenario hold down channel and dont move its not even stronger than my lacerate character used some unfortunate white map corrupted t16s as a comparison non the less it is quite strong, clear speed worse then reave im sorry its not even comparable assuming youre running open maps which is meta so not even sure why all the hate for this skill its seems like a complete overeaction to the skill to compare it to t1 builds like cospris or bladevortex is full retard it needs a very good weapon to even compete my frame of reference my 600 exa build barely competes with a 60 exa pathfinder BV, its a lot of fun to play but people are always taking horrible comparisons like now its the end of league where people are min maxed as far as they personally can and are equiping this and knee jerk reacting. /rant
view-thread/1694128 Explosive Arrow 2.4 Pathfinder STD League
view-thread/1765907 CI Claw Reave Assassin 2.4 Endgame STD League GMT +2 |
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" Yeah maybe pretty shitty cheap BV build with dozen deaths. But, look at Harvest Jasper Chopper and flask Vinktar, it already much higher than 12ex " I know about damage calculation, but i also look at visual clear speed, and it not so fast on 82-83lvl maps, on youtube i've seen guys with much faster clear speeds. " Okay, if GGG nerf this skill, BV will be just a slow boss killing machine (in immortal mode) and gamers will bitching - why it so easy? this cheater never die. |
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" All you need is +9k ES, vinktar's, a 5 link, and 20/20 gems to kill the shaper deathless with ease. More than 12 ex? Yeah, right... Maybe your passive tree is so messed up that you need more power from items? " "Visual clearspeed"... LOL... Yeah, "some" builds can clear faster if you play with a "harvest"... Doesn't make what I said any less true. A skill that can trivialize all the content is OP. End of discussion. " Yeah, at least slow them down for a change... Why not? Nerf/remove vaal-pact and vinktar's along with it, and suddenly people may need something that is called "skill". I'm down with that. [quote="ScrotieMcB"]It's just, like, people's opinions, man. But I cannot respect motherf♪♫♫♪rs calling something a simulator, when it isn't one.[/quote] Mors edited this post first. Last edited by Sure_K4y on Nov 20, 2016, 11:00:16 AM
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" What the hell ? Oo Seems like it's your first char, you just started the game, and researched for the OP build to do it I guess. Saying that if you don't have 14k ES you don't have enough because you can get one shot is ridiculous, it's ... WOW. GGG should never have let 14k+ ES be reached like this in the first place seriously, this way of thinking is just terrible for the game. You are aware that it isn't anything like the standard (not league there obv) average buffer value for mapping chars, right ?? Do you have any idea what "average" life builds have for a buffer in end game ? Some hits are supposed to be dodged, the fact that you can actually over gear some of those is already an aberration. 31k dps low for BV ? Seriously, just wtf here man, I find no other words that describe better what I feel reading this. You seem to be completely out of touch with that playing PoE is (becoming "was" month after mmonth) supposed to be like, you seem to think that facetanking everything brainlessely and spending 2min on a man is a standard, oh my god ... SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading. Last edited by Fruz on Nov 20, 2016, 11:30:36 AM
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" I understand you, but this game any way must be a good place to relax, and not be insane pain in the ass +20 hours for bad loot in solo mode. Here no way to be rich without trade market, and i'm really don't like it. If even i will sacrifice my health for this game, it still useless. " I want very powerful build and very fast kill any bosses, so this is my goal, deal with it. Last edited by WickedStranger on Nov 20, 2016, 11:38:20 AM
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" What ??? Lol, do you realise that there is no "rich" if there is no market ? " You just confirmed everything that I said. Fast foot generation here you go. So sad PoE now catters to those kind of players so much it seems ... SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
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" Nobody is asking for blade flurry to be OP. What I want is to be able to clear content as fast as a caster build in an HC league, using a melee gem and weapons I'm likely to have at the time. Blade flurry by itself won't even provide that, even if it stays as it is now. You can say its OP, but is it really? There are plenty of ways to instakill uber atziri in this game and many of them are caster gems. Those same caster gems that are good the moment you pick them up and last until the endgame. Bladefall mines for example can oneshot uber atziri. Bladefall is good the moment you pick it up, and stays good the rest of the game. It also clears fairly effectively. Are you saying bladefall is OP? Spark has has its shotgun removed (so is slower on bosses), but it still clears maps in seconds when you acquire vaal spark and some vaal jewels. Spark is also good when you pick it up AT LEVEL 1. Is spark also OP? I've seen vaal fireball builds clear maps almost as fast as vaal spark. Fireball is also good right when you get it. Is fireball OP? Dischargers are well known for being high damage aoe gems that clear maps quickly with the right setups. It suffers a bit while leveling but there are plenty of alternate elemental gems to use while getting your gear that clear insanely fast as an elemental build. Is discharge OP? The list honestly goes on. The only things that AREN'T always op right out of the box, are melee gems. Melee gems are both more dangerous, AND require a weapon to even be good. I don't know why people think this is OK, but it's not. If blade flurry changes that, then it's a good thing, not a bad thing. Ironically, even blade flurry won't close that gap. my evasion is so high i only insta rip sometimes ----- Bug Fixes: People were using cyclone for actual melee builds, so we nerfed it and made blade vortex. Also, we went ahead and made cyclone great for CoC casters while we were at it. Last edited by Legatus1982 on Nov 20, 2016, 12:08:34 PM
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" This is exactly what I was referring to when I said that people have a hard time when it comes to distinguishing "good" from "overpowered". I want Flurry to be end-game viable too, believe it or not. In fact, I want melee as a whole to be end-game viable, preferably with decent clearspeed. You can't expect a weapon dependent skill to be able to keep up with the access to clearspeed that casters have in the early stages of the game. That's how it's pretty much always been. Though I will add that Flurry provides a lot of levelling power in and off itself, doubly so when used in conjunction with crit heavy setups. Will a bladevortexer level faster early on? Sure, but BV should never be a benchmark for a balanced skill in the first place. " Well, yes many casters kill uber Atziri fast, many of them use OP caster gems like bladevortex, others are dedicated builds that are optimized for uber Atziri, but otherwise lack the general clearspeed that bladevortex would provide. So, if you take detonate dead for example, that skill annihilates uber Atziri when played properly, shaper also works fine, but it comes at the expense of general clearspeed. A boss killer that lacks general clearspeed sounds like a good concept, but then bladevortex comes along, does everything faster, and nobody these days even knows that detonate dead is an awesome skill. The same principle as above applies to Blade Flurry. Just like bladevortex it provides very high clearspeed as well as ridiculous single target damage. By way of logic, a skill that does everything better than other skills in the same category (melee) is a cause for concern. If we now talk about the comparison to casters, pretty much every melee skill is lacking in some way shape or form, and Flurry is the exception from the rule. It is so exceptional in fact, that I can kill shaper with flurry and a Bino's about as easily as with a flaskvortexer. The moment these skills do the same thing, which is trivializing end-game content, there's trouble to be had for sure. I don't want bladevortex or bladeflurry nerfed into the ground, believe it or not, but trivializing content that should be a challenge is a reason for further adjustments. " Spark has been nerfed many times, and people still play it. Spark is strong. It scales well and benefits from vinktar's, and dying sun. Vinktar's and dying sun aren't spark's fault, for lack of a better term, however these things add up to a powerhouse build when you get the itemization right. Vaal spark is a different story entirely, and it got hammered for good reasons, however people still play vaal spark and clear insanely fast with it. While I won't deem spark OP, as in bladevortex OP, it certainly is stronger than many people give it credit for. However, in order to make a spark build really powerful, you need the appropriate gear, which can be a bit restrictive for life based builds in particular. What I am saying is that Spark isn't too good for too cheap, bladevortex on the other hand is. If we take flurry into this equation, I'd say flurry is too good for too cheap: Flurry + Bino's + vinktar's = faceroll for sub 5 exalt. " I don't think that comparing vaal skills to regular skills in regards to clearspeed alone is going anywhere, to be honest. What I am saying here again is that a skill that does everything equally well is a cause for concern. I will add though that 1h wpn skills need to be able to perform well with just a 5 link, and should be really good on a 6 link as a result. Flurry is overperforming in every way imaginable, and unlike the former clearspeed powerhouse that was reave, it doesn't even need a vaal gem for more AOE and there's no rush when you play flurry, because you don't have any reavee stacks that you could run out of. That being said, bladeflurry outperforms the former fastest clearing melee skill, eventhough some people say it doesn't (but I question their sanity anyways), while it has none of the drawbacks and delivers insane single target dps, even in a league environment. " Discharge has also been nerfed for good reasons, and a cospri discharger has no issues reaching that former clearspeed, despite the nerf. Discharge has lost a bit of punch when it comes to bosses (which means it still is insane), and one may argue that a good discharger needs Voll's devotion, which isn't cheap (cheap being relative), but a well made CoC discharger is still too powerful from my point of view. The early leveling phase plays only a minor role, if any at all, because you can level as a crit-self-caster, reach level 70-80 very fast, from which point on you can transition into CoC-Cospri's Malice with minimal effort. " That is somewhat accurate. One thing people forget is that melee builds are depending on successfully hitting things, casters don't have to worry about accuracy at all. And I would agree that melee and casters need to be more on par. However, if there's only one melee-skill that can keep up with top-tier casters (which are powerful to a questionable degree), then nothing has been "fixed". What's worse is that introducing one skill that is able to keep up means that everybody who wants to play melee has to pick Flurry, which is a problem for the overall build diversity, or what little there's left of it. In all honesty, I can see where you're coming from, but the "fight fire with fire" approach isn't doing anybody any good in the long run. And I think you agree with me in that respect. Defending an overpowered melee skill, by saying it isn't OP, just to ensure that the melee-archetypes have one straw to hold on to doesn't help melee as a whole, and it doesn't change the things that are wrong this game at this point in time. People these days feel so entitled to having their "do all stuff fast and easy" experience, that they stop at nothing to keep it that way. This status quo that we're in led to a point where even the hardest content in this game isn't hard anymore. That's a problem, and any skill that makes the hardest content available easy is too strong, melee or not it doesn't matter. If people want to go fast, I'm OK with that, that's what tier 1-12 maps are there for. But going equally fast in a tier 15-16 map is plain and simple stupid, that shouldn't be possible at all. Of course the next thing people will say is that nobody's forced to play an OP build, and that would be true if POE was a single player game with optional multiplayer. We all get thrown in the same basket, no matter the build we choose to play. Same content, same "challenges", same economy. " Want some fries to go with your McMeta? [quote="ScrotieMcB"]It's just, like, people's opinions, man. But I cannot respect motherf♪♫♫♪rs calling something a simulator, when it isn't one.[/quote] Mors edited this post first. Last edited by Sure_K4y on Nov 20, 2016, 1:06:05 PM
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" OK, I actually do agree with you in that respect. Except the problem with what you're saying is that we all know helping melee as a whole is never going to happen. If GGG said "ok, we're fixing melee next update, melee is now tankier and does more damage out of the box and scales a little bit slower once you've got your endgame gear, to bring it in line with spells, and simultaneously we are nerfing EQ and BF" I'd be ok with that. But that isn't what's going to happen. What's going to happen is, melee is going to stay the way it is now regardless of whether BF gets nerfed or not. So leave BF the fuck alone and let people ACTUALLY have a useable fucking melee skill for once, to go along with the goddamn truckload of useable spells. If GGG fixes melee? Then fantastic, nerf the shit out of BF. Until then, leave it the fuck alone. my evasion is so high i only insta rip sometimes ----- Bug Fixes: People were using cyclone for actual melee builds, so we nerfed it and made blade vortex. Also, we went ahead and made cyclone great for CoC casters while we were at it. Last edited by Legatus1982 on Nov 20, 2016, 2:25:58 PM
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