Drakk the ARPG-ist's PoE Review: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

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Jgizle wrote:
I find it odd that you think the trading system is good. This is because the community dislikes the current trade system. In its current state it is not even a trade system, its a bartering system which is actually different.

You see trade is the exchange of an agreed upon currency for items. Trade is essentially what we use in reality. We use dollars, or w/e currency is used in our country to buy things from some one else. This is not what is used in POE. This is what is and was used in Diablo 3. The agreed upon currency was Gold and it could be used to buy everything.

POE uses a bartering system, and because of that "trade" in POE sucks. You see we use items with intrinsic value for exchanging of goods. The more rare the "currency" the more value we place on it. The higher the quantity of said currency in the community the lower the value of said item.

This becomes problematic because bartering requires both people be present at the same time to make an exchange. Most items people barter for have little to no value (most trash uniques only sell for a few chaos orbs). At end game you do not want to stop farming to trade for a lowsy chaos or two. As such it is very common to whisper some one to buy something and never get a reply. For the few you do whisper who reply they are often doing something and tell you to wait, such as Lab. The buyer is impatient though and often never waits.

This makes bartering difficult unless you set time aside to make no progression on your character specifically to barter with others. Its a bad system that segregates the community based on where they live and when they are able to play. Some one in a different time zone might want my item when I am offline but they will never see it.



We want a real trade system. One where people can buy or sell items to people without being present. Unfortunately that is hard to do in a bartering system unless the items we use as currency are givin a set value or these items can be converted into a primary currency we can use for trade and then convert back down into the items we currently use as currency. You could say chaos orbs are the primary currency since most items are sold in chaos, but people will still try to buy in alternative forms of currency. Some items are so valuable you cant even trade for them in chaos orbs as you would require more than 1 trade to make the exchange, therefore you risk getting scammed. Some items are worth so little that even 1 chaos orb is over priced.


Well I suppose coming from Diablo and other titles where trading systems are either not user-friendly, shameless bullshit cash grabs (RMAH) or do not exist at all, PoE is to me a great change of pace even if its imperfect. QoL The Dream would be a fully integrated Poe.Trade as alt-tabbing is a bad system in the L-R but for now I'll take it!
I agree with alot of your points actually. Mu Legends just came out on global we are testing that out now.

My main issues with the game are:

1. Lag & Desync - It has had major improvement over the past years however the game engine just cannot support lvl 85+ sextant crazy mod maps. Watch dismantles videos. He sits there with EA while the boxes freeze the game good 10s and he survives due to 16k+ health. Its just stupid to keep playing high content like this. Also I hate how most of the community's answer is to just throw money at the PC parts. "You lagging? Oh you need fiber. You have fps issues go get the newest $1k video card.' No...you need to fix or remake the game.

2. Multiplayer -My very first day of Essence league I felt like uninstalling. I couldnt even get a pair of facebreakers because people would not take exact currency in chaos. even if i payed more through other types of orbs besides chaos like regrets. The game focuses too much on solo play and being selfish with currency. Bartering doesnt even exist anymore like it was supposed to. Also more players just means more lag. The IQ/IR bonuses dont even matter when there is soo many trash uniques now. The multiplayer just seems to be really lacking. Good luck to anyone who is playing self found characters! This game is really really gone away from that idea and now currency farming.

3. Currency & poe.trade: Kinda more on the currency issues. I get there is no auction system so right cool. But whats up with all the afk players on poe.trade? It has been a real issue in the past. Alot of prices are unstable as well with streamers jacking prices up. There are also absurd prices that waste space/showing off. Its almost come to the point where an auction system with different in game currencies (chaos regrets chroms etc) would be the same as poe.trade. Hell it might even clean up dumb trade chat

4. Third party websites: Uniques are mostly garbage now and the game in a way is p2w even if it 'cheating' or bannable. I checked once this league and it was about $3 an exalted orb.

Conclusion: D3 and PoE combined together would be the ultimate game. They each have their issues but together would be insane. im kinda done with poe for now. I have played many years and these are some concerns that will most likely never get fixed.
The lag desync issue is usually an issue on the players side. GGG has stated several times that people have spammed support on this issue. They usually say to try moving your router closer to your pc or using a wired connection and almost all people have their issue fixed after this. Next is hardware. If both of these are not the issue then it is your location in relation to the server you play on. If you are in california playing on texas server it is going to take a while to send your data and receive data back. Thus high latency and you get lag or desync. They can fix that by adding more servers, provided they had the money to do so.

As for currency in ESC. Chaos has no value really in Esc because the essences are superiir to chaos itself and are easier to get. Thats the reason for ur issue. If this becomes part of game chaos value will go down.

As for players not being online, thats an issue with poe trade. GGG should do more to help make it more accurate.
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Jgizle wrote:
The lag desync issue is usually an issue on the players side. GGG has stated several times that people have spammed support on this issue. They usually say to try moving your router closer to your pc or using a wired connection and almost all people have their issue fixed after this. Next is hardware. If both of these are not the issue then it is your location in relation to the server you play on. If you are in california playing on texas server it is going to take a while to send your data and receive data back. Thus high latency and you get lag or desync. They can fix that by adding more servers, provided they had the money to do so.


I think, he meant FPS drops, that happen due to very poor optimization and inability to reduce particle effect density/quality. Sure, top-tier PCs may have less issues with that, but there'are situations where is the BEST PC in the world will hang out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXTYhif9080
IGN: MortalKombat
Molten Strike build guide: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1346504

There is no knowledge
That is not power
Last edited by MortalKombat3#6961 on Oct 30, 2016, 5:00:12 AM
@OP
Literally half of your uglys were killer-features which brought PoE player base when beta started. Flasks with unique mechanics: you can't just mash 1-5 all the time how it was in d2 era, all your flasks have meaning. After PoE i played many arpgs and your usual "fill inventory with bottles and drink" felt bland and hollow. So flasks PoE-style was one of reasons i started to play. (Of cource i'm not talking about current pathfinder issues)
Second, uniques. Oh boy. That truly what bought my attention back in the past: uniques are not your best in every slot. All you wear atm in d3 - uniques. Even in d2 and Median, Sacred, GD. Sets and uniques were killing itemization. In PoE instead of best choices you have to think why you need specific unique, which drawbacks it brings, how to build around it. Situation got worse with jewels system though, now you can see folks running around in just two rares, but that is unusual. Anyway, getting unique in your item build sometimes is a puzzle on its own and that's great, kept me interested in itemization for 4 years.
Thanks for the feedback! I disagree with much of it, but it's still valuable stuff for the dev team to see. Multiple perspectives are important.

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Ðrakken wrote:
-Flasks
This is a matter of my personal taste and hence not in Ugly. I think flasks are silly. "Excuse me monsters, I am parched! Please pause hitting me for one moment while I sort through my portable refrigerator for the flavor of magic mountain dew that will allow me to get unfrozen! How am I moving my arms when I'm frozen you ask? Who cares!" I guess this contributes to gameplay with more buttons to mash, but I don't like being beholden to my jamba juice selection/charges just to play a build which would work without them if they didn't have to exist in the game. Other games have them or a variation of them, and my opinion of them in PoE is no different than in those cases: They're restrictive and silly.


I feel that flasks should probably be categorized before being criticized. I find those that provide short-term buffs (not status immunities, but actual buffs) to be the least appealing addition to the game.

My biggest beef with such flasks is that they are

A. Boring to use. Click a button, get the effect, watch the seconds count down, click the button again, watch the seconds count down again. Keeping track of such timers is not something I find fun.

and

B. Necessary. With defensive mechanics being in the piss-poor state they are right now, a lot of endgame content is simply not doable without them.

Re: rares vs. uniques. Ever play D2 classic? Before uniques were in that game? A lot of people opined that that is a much more interesting implementation of RNG, and I kind of agree.

I like GGG's compromise here, where fantastic uniques are available, but they are not just stat-bags and are rarely BiS unless they are used to enable a particular mechanic.
Wash your hands, Exile!
Except ALL other ARPGs threat their Melee much better. Sure it might not have same destructive capacity as casters, but it always get :
1. More hp. Like much more.
2. Working means of damage mutigation (as opposed to armour in PoE)
3. Sometimes even some great advantages like movement skils that are incredibly really fast, give you invulnerablity while you dash at enemy, etc.
4. Sweetest part? Ranged chars get like no mutigation compared to melee in other games.

As a result you get much tankier character than caster to say the least.

...

FYI. Strongest (at least DPS-wise) character in another great ARPG - Tian Quest is a melee. Spear-guy. I don't remember / know how exactly this class called (probably Rogue), because I only played it with my native languaue and it's not English.
Last edited by SunL4D2#6224 on Oct 30, 2016, 8:50:18 AM
For me....

Trading is POE.Trade...and if it was run by GGG, I'd be alright with it, despite the issues POE.Trade has. As is...POE HAS NO TRADING. It has a community website that enables 90% of players who wish to trade to ACTUALLY trade. The game itself? It has a nearly useless trade button, that only gets real use BECAUSE of the community website.

On top of that issue, trading involves trying to find a player who will actually ANSWER when you want to trade. That person also might be in another league, and not want to swap. And god forbid you want to negotiate a price....No, nobody stands for that.

Too many issue with trading for me to ever call it good.

As for Uniques...I agree that many are simply bad. But your specific complaints baffle me..."500 hp, but lost 6 ****ing sockets"...That's the POINT. That is, originally, what ALL POE Uniques were meant to be. A very few build enabling uniques, like Whispering Ice, and then a variety of powerful and good uniques, that had a specific drawback to them, so that your choices meant something. The idea was, rares are generically good. Really good rares are BiS. Uniques bridge the gap, and often offer a power that rares don't have, in exchange for a compensating drawback. Balance between the power and the drawback is often difficult, and indeed imbalanced drawbacks are what keep some uniques unused. But the idea was sound, and on items like Kaom's Heart...I'd have to say that it was achieved, wonderfully so.

I can't really comment on the servers, as I play alone almost all the time. I can and do agree with the rest of your posts. I think if you were to play the game long enough, or try a build that requires you to purchase many scarce items, you would quickly reach the community's existing level of trade hate. It's a serious issue with the community, and has been for a while. Going by your standards, I'd have listed it under ugly, and I dare say the majority of the community would as well.

I'm somewhat surprised you never commented on the new player experience, or the wiki. Both are serious issues with the game that need fixing, and went unmentioned.


- Sheepster
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heedkid wrote:
@OP
Literally half of your uglys were killer-features which brought PoE player base when beta started. Flasks with unique mechanics: you can't just mash 1-5 all the time how it was in d2 era, all your flasks have meaning. After PoE i played many arpgs and your usual "fill inventory with bottles and drink" felt bland and hollow. So flasks PoE-style was one of reasons i started to play. (Of cource i'm not talking about current pathfinder issues)
Second, uniques. Oh boy. That truly what bought my attention back in the past: uniques are not your best in every slot. All you wear atm in d3 - uniques. Even in d2 and Median, Sacred, GD. Sets and uniques were killing itemization. In PoE instead of best choices you have to think why you need specific unique, which drawbacks it brings, how to build around it. Situation got worse with jewels system though, now you can see folks running around in just two rares, but that is unusual. Anyway, getting unique in your item build sometimes is a puzzle on its own and that's great, kept me interested in itemization for 4 years.


Well, Pathfinder design was exactly that - she can keep up flasks all the time, with certain additional investments. It's OK for me. But OP flasks (namely - Vessel of Vinktar) turn Pathfinder into OP freak. I dont think that whole class should be gutted because of single OP flask abuse... Better nerf that flask, and Pathfinder with instantly became OK.
Also, Surgeon's mod on flasks should be reworked. Flasks are NOT intended to be recharged without killing (jusr like Vaal skills), so that imbalanced mechanics should go away.
The only one who is allowed to recharge flasks with hits, is PAthfinder, as she sacrifices whole Ascendancy + several nodes in tree and mods on gear to achieve that. And it's her "unique" class feature (just like Inquisitor ignores resists or Necromancer can self-buff offerings).

"Uniques" in D3 have few random stats (along with few fixed), so they arent same to D2 or PoE uniques. They're rather a hybrid between uniques and rares.
And even in D2,Sacred2, GD for certain slots uniques/sets werent BiS (sometimes not even close). But i kinda agree with you, overall uniques are overpowered in those games, idk what they were thinking. A system with all those random mods on gear should allow for many BiS combinations, considering how RARE they usually are.

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SunL4D2 wrote:
Except ALL other ARPGs threat their Melee much better.

Not all.

D2: Casters have much higher clear speed and are much less gear-dependant. The only thing melee is superior, is Uber facetank farming (due to life leech).

TQ: Bow character has a bit higher clear speed than melee, but melee has higher survivability and DPS against songle target. Casters are kinda screwed.

Sacred: Casters are far superior to melee.

Sacred 2: Ranged characters (Seraphim, Dryad) are also the tankiest ones, and have the highest clear speed (Dryad) and DPS (Seraphim).

Grim Dawn: Melee is far tankier and have higher clear speed/DPS where is matters.

Torchlight 2: On highest difficulty, monsters hit like trucks in melee, and armour is useless (similar to PoE). Ranged classes are far superior there. Gladly, all 4 classes can be ranged/casters :).

So, what do we have? 2 games have melee OP, while other 4 threat ranged/caster far better, while melee are screwed.
IGN: MortalKombat
Molten Strike build guide: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1346504

There is no knowledge
That is not power
Last edited by MortalKombat3#6961 on Oct 30, 2016, 10:21:12 AM
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Ðrakken wrote:
-One-shot mechanics + EXP Loss on Death.

I don't have a problem with either of these mechanics in isolation: players should be rewarded for learning and mitigating the mechanics of dangerous monsters, and punished when they do not; HOWEVER, in PoE's current state with both of these elements being so unforgiving, they need to be mutually exclusive. Right now this system cuts good builds off from content and progression entirely with exactly zero recourse for player correction. How my berserker, with 6.8k HP, 160+ res and 5k armor unbuffed/unflasked can waltz through T14 maps for hours and then in a T11 map in one hit from a monster offscreen while fully buffed with zero room for player correction destroy me and lose all of that progress, is utterly ridiculous. Whats worse is how painfully COMMON this sort of scenario is lvl 85+.


Players have been complaining about this since BETA. You are absolutely right - the 1-shot mechanics without any report on exactly "what it was" can make the game very frustrating - and paired with the experience loss on death (which really should be removed or reworked), it undoubtedly drives players away. Another issue is the massive majority (I'd say 95%) of players will never, ever experience end-game content (shaper, uber atziri, etc.). This is because of the death and 1-shot mechanics that make the game crazy difficult rather than "fun and progressive" at high levels.

All that and a bag of chips!

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