Obscurantis mechanics

TY Viper for the support:). We are all here posting in this section, because we like to help people and explain things to them. When is someone, a regular poster, posting nonsense, it creates problems. People are confused, thread is derailed by posters telling him he is wrong and by him claiming he is right. And people, who we are here for, have no idea who to trust, because unlike us, they are lacking the forum experience related information about profiles who tend to be right most of the time. Please note that this applies only to mechanics topics, not the discussion ones, where things are matter of opinion.

Unfortunately, Ive seen you many times not being right in mechanics topics, as well as creating topics asking about basic or intermediate mechanics stuff. Or, like now, misunderstanding the post and replying on some completely different topic.. Today I decided to ask you to consider staying away from mechanics topics, even for the cost you get offended and thread derailed. Sorry for that.

"

Vipermagi wrote:

False?

Ludvator very intentionally only quoted the latter half of your first post. You clearly failed to understand why he did that; you responded by focusing on Increased Damage stacking, whereas the part Ludvator talks about is exclusively about More Damage.

(Removed by Support) Read the fuck up. I'll underline and bold the important stuff for you.

This is what Ludvator quoted:

"

Also, you are very likely making use of things like Physical Projectile Attack Damage, Melee Physical Damage, and other "more" modifiers that make a simple 50% "increased" damage much, much harder to notice in its own right.

This is what he posted:

"

beg your pardon?

1) Its exactly the opposite to what you say, with "more" damage mods it would be more noticeable, because the damage difference in absolute numbers would be higher.. but in relative numbers the impact of increased damage would stay the same no matter how many or how high "more" modifiers you have.
2) he is likely to use MPD with attacks that focus on projectiles.. omg really?
3) I know you have good intentions, but what is the point of giving people game mechanics advice in Gameplay Help forum when you have troubles with the basics yourself?

In #1 Ludvator talks bullshit. If you have 300% increased and plug in another 50% increased, it's going to be fairly easy to notice on its own because, in this example, all you have is either 300% increased or 350% increased. I'm saying that the 50% increased is harder to notice because you have other modifiers that would make such a relatively small change much harder to detect. Things like more modifiers.

#2 is Ludvator thinking I meant to put MPD in with a projectile attack. All I was doing was mentioning people almost always have more modifiers in the equation. No reason not to consider such things. Not my fault he took my post so fucking literally.

#3 is Ludvator (Removed by Support) misunderstanding, most likely be being so literal, yet again.

Then I post this in reply. To save you clicking it, as it's only for referrence, all I am basically saying is what I mentioned in this very post earlier:

50% increased damage is hard to detect when you have so many more mods affecting something. 300% increased, 50% more, 75% more, 10% more, etc.

Whatever the fuck the numbers are, when you have a lot, don't expect one simple "increased" mod to affect your damage too much.

P.S. This isn't about what the actual effect of some 50% increased would be with other increased and more modifiers. Again, read and comprehend.

"

Ludvator wrote:

TY Viper for the support:). We are all here posting in this section, because we like to help people and explain things to them. When is someone, a regular poster, posting nonsense, it creates problems. People are confused, thread is derailed by posters telling him he is wrong and by him claiming he is right. And people, who we are here for, have no idea who to trust, because unlike us, they are lacking the forum experience related information about profiles who tend to be right most of the time. Please note that this applies only to mechanics topics, not the discussion ones, where things are matter of opinion.

Unfortunately, Ive seen you many times not being right in mechanics topics, as well as creating topics asking about basic or intermediate mechanics stuff. Or, like now, misunderstanding the post and replying on some completely different topic.. Today I decided to ask you to consider staying away from mechanics topics, even for the cost you get offended and thread derailed. Sorry for that.

Correction, proving that I am right.

And of those "many times" Ludvator, it has only been a few. And because of my laziness and having an actual life I haven't posted in them again. Though some might mix this up as I don't post in some threads once I've said what I wanted to say. I don't have unlimited energy to defend everything I say everywhere. It gets tiring when you try to help someone and each and every time you post you have to worry about some ass attacking you.

Just because I don't put up with some dumbass' shit doesn't mean I'm wrong. It just means people attack me and try to debase what I'm saying, even though it's correct, just because they don't like me. I really wish more people were like me in that they would at least admit that they were incorrect.

Edit:

Speaking of which, I'm done with this thread. I've said what I wanted multiple times and have proven it.

"

Natharias wrote:

This is what Ludvator quoted:

"

Also, you are very likely making use of things like Physical Projectile Attack Damage, Melee Physical Damage, and other "more" modifiers that make a simple 50% "increased" damage much, much harder to notice in its own right.

let me recolor that post so you maybe will understand why he posted what he posted:

"

Also, you are very likely making use of things like Physical Projectile Attack Damage, Melee Physical Damage, and other "more" modifiers that make a simple 50% "increased" damage much, much harder to notice in its own right.

If even after that you still can't understand what all the fuss is about then my advice to all other thread members will be just ignore you.

More multipliers don't affect how easy the damage is to notice if you are looking at the tooltip, or per-hit damage on enemies or something. The percentage damage boost from 50% increased will be the same regardless of how many more multipliers you have, and the absolute increased will be *higher* if you have more multipliers. So from a tooltip perspective I agree with Viper & co.

*However*, not everybody notices things based on the tooltip damage, or damage per hit. When you're playing the game, you mostly notice damage increases based on kill speed. If it takes you 2s to kill something normally, then with a 12.5% dps boost it will take you 1.78s to kill things. That's like a quarter of a second faster - easy to notice.

If you kill things in 0.5 seconds, though, the 12.5% damage boost will bring the kill speed down to 0.44s. This is the same percentage decrease, but the absolute time difference is a lot less: 0.06s. So you can see how it might be much harder to notice if you're already killing things quickly.

And, of course, if you already kill things in 1 hit, then you won't notice any change at all!

shining happy people holding hands.....

So, in conclusion, the more "More" multipliers you have, the greater the noticeability of increases of "Increased" modifiers.

"

mark1030 wrote:

So, in conclusion, the more "More" multipliers you have, the greater the noticeability of increases of "Increased" modifiers.

It depends on how you define "noticeability." Mark_GGG seems to use the word "impact" in the same way that Vipermagi uses "net-gain" and the same way that I use "more-damage-than-before." If we equate all of these words, then in fact, "more" multipliers have exactly zero impact on the noticeability of increases of "Increased" modifiers.

If you define it in terms of absolute DPS numbers, then your statement would ring true. More "More" multipliers would surely make the noticeability of "Increased" modifiers greater.

EDIT: dudiobugtron actually had a really good point. Kill speed is the true relevant number; DPS is just an intermediary that is often easier to calculate than kill speed (because we don't know the average actual HP of enemies). When you already have high damage, the same proportional damage output change won't have as much of a change in kill time; when you're already slaying monsters crazy-fast or one-hitting, it can be hard to notice a difference.

"

mark1030 wrote:

So, in conclusion, the more "More" multipliers you have, the greater the noticeability of increases of "Increased" modifiers.

yeah, thats what I said in my first post that started the madness:).. I consider it more noticeable because it adds more in absolute numbers, but the relative increase stays the same ofc:)