Bars forum build guides vol. 2: The Lab Edition

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Jerle wrote:

Thanks for the guide. Looking forward to the support pack edition.

Oh god, they should totally do this. Sell "I love Lab" and "I hate Lab" supporter packs. So people can show off their supporter tags as well.

I guess that would be a bit pay2win though...

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dudiobugtron wrote:

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Jerle wrote:

Thanks for the guide. Looking forward to the support pack edition.

Oh god, they should totally do this. Sell "I love Lab" and "I hate Lab" supporter packs. So people can show off their supporter tags as well.

I guess that would be a bit pay2win though...

The 'I hate lab' supporter pack involves not giving GGG money until they do something about the lab and a lot of people are using it :P

I bookmarked this and i will be reading it and laughing with how easy GGG's forum endgame is for as long as i find it amusing.

Almost makes me wanna wear my red slippers and dance...








































Nicely done once again Bars. Couldn't stop laughing. :)

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Pyrokar wrote:

I bookmarked this and i will be reading it and laughing with how easy GGG's forum endgame is for as long as i find it amusing.

Almost makes me wanna wear my red slippers and dance...

Forumgaem2ez

*Pyrokar wins. Fatality!*

+1

Looking forward to the maps build guide. As in maps drops or how I burned through 30 15s in standard and doing 12-13's now and why I'm all dressed up and no good content to do. Vocal minority (TM)

Then the experience guide guide. Which is basically a subset of the maps guide.

Yeah, I want the map guide.

Gotta say Bars did a really good job with the lab hater builds, and white knight gameplay is fairly simplistic in itself so it need no further clarification. However, can't help but notice the part about the middle road less traveled is somewhat rudimentary, which is quite unsatisfactory regarding the complexity of the issue. As a result, newcomers might get confused about certain finer points of the build, and that would be a shame as it's underrepresented as it is.

So, as someone with vast amount of experience regarding the building process, gearing and actually using it, I will try to make it somewhat more accessible with a set of cardinal rules you must follow when making your own variation.

1. Always remember you are playing your own game, you aren't in either camps even though it may sometimes seem as you are. As a result, we won't use PoE ruleset in defining the build because that isn't the game we're playing.

2. Prerequisites for this build are, admittedly, a bit more harsh than for the remaining two. The first thing you need in a neutral good alignment, which may seem counter intuitive as you would expect true neutral. The reason for that is you also need a certain amount of positive Karma, your status in the community must be at least 'accepted' first, so start by doing some unrelated quests to raise your reputation, kill some geckos or fix a toaster.

3. Avoid stat specialization at all costs, your stats must be well distributed across several parameters. Unlike lab hater which focuses on str or int and lab lover which focuses on constitution, we will spread our stats like this:
(keep in mind this is just a suggestion, you may deviate from it when making your own build)
STR: 8 + 2
DEX: 8 + 8
CON: 8 + 6
INT: 8 + 2
WIS: 8 + 8
CHA: 8 + 0

Short explanation on starting stats:
STR: There's no need for a high strength score, you don't want to state your opinions forcefully but at least some is useful if you want to emphasize something on occasion.
DEX: One of the two most important scores for this build. The main trick about it is to act as if nothing of the subject directly addresses you, so you will get much use out of decent deflection bonus and high reflex saving throw.
CON: Also a very important stat as this path can be risky. No matter how high your deflection is, sometimes you will be mistaken for one of the other team and hit, you need to be able to shrug the damage and appear unharmed.
INT: Not a very important stat, you don't want to dazzle your opponents with eloquence as high quality hater variant does because appearing invested in the issue spells certain death.
WIS: A very important stat, you always want to appear as knowing something that others don't, which adds to your persuasion score, and if you take the 'way of the east' perk you will be able to add your wisdom score to your deflection bonus whenever providing an answer that is tagged as 'vague'. Also adds to the judgement score, which helps determine the best moment to exit or leave the conversation.
CHA: A stat you usually leave alone, you want to avoid being in the spotlight at any cost, and high wisdom score will take care of persuasion penalty.

4. Your spell focus will have to be illusion, spells from that school offer way too much utility to pass up. The most useful spells you should always have in your spellbook are:
Divert Attention - quotes someone with a more offending post than yours, works best if you find yourself flatfooted or slightly outnumbered
Reflect Damage - drives the victim into a logical paradox by providing a set of false premises, works best versus high damage opponenents
Pacify - sacrifices 10 persuasion points to apply a -40 penalty to the opponent's agression score, sometimes making him quit the field
Confuse - induce the opponent into losing sight of his original goal by providing a slightly contradicting set of arguments, but not enough for anyone to complain about it
Disguise - makes you appear as a member of the opponent's faction, works best if the opponent is confused
Mirror Image - disguises a number of side participants into your teammates, can have high collateral damage
Invisibility - a clutch skill, used only if the topic absolutely isn't going anywhere, the effect on your persuasion score depends on 'last word' perk triggering, very high mana cost

4. Perk selection is mostly centered around augmenting your spells:
level 1: Awareness: an essential pick, this perk will enable you to feel the course of the conversation, mood of participants and also provide +4 to judgement score
level 3: Big Leagues - this is an unlocker perk, it will enable you to discuss subjects you don't know much about by cherrypicking parts of earlier conversation
level 6: Demolition Expert - a failsafe, this perk enables you to reroll a failed persuasion attempt by presenting it as a misunderstanding
level 9: Iron Will - prevents you from truly taking sides instead of just appearing to do so, a must at high levels but best taken as early as possible
level 12: Empathy - helps judge the reaction of the opponent in advance, another essential skill which prevents you from wasting time and persuasion points
level 15: Nimble Fingers - provides a 50% boost to spotting incriminating errors in your posts and correcting them, less useful when 'bonked forum' field effect is in play
level 18: Harmless - your humble demeanor makes the the opponent much more likely to give ground to you, what's the worst thing that can happen?
level 21: Cautious Nature - with this perk you're much more likely to avoid entering discussions that can't be resolved in your favor
level 24: Mysterious Stranger - your posts appear to have much more sense than they really do, resulting in much greater chance for casual onlookers to join the fray at your side
level 27: Silent Death - enables you to do double damage with your first post whenever you follow the flow of a conversation undetected

And that's about it. There are more nuances to it, of course, but there's no shortcut to actual experience, you need a lot of practice to get the right kind of feeling that will complement this kind of a build. Maybe a bit less beginner friendly build than others and lacking in raw power but it's incredibly satisfying when it works and fairly safe, good luck!

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raics wrote:

DEX: One of the two most important scores for this build. The main trick about it is to act as if nothing of the subject directly addresses you, so you will get much use out of decent deflection bonus and high reflex saving throw.
CON: Also a very important stat as this path can be risky. No matter how high your deflection is, sometimes you will be mistaken for one of the other team and hit, you need to be able to shrug the damage and appear unharmed.
INT: Not a very important stat, you don't want to dazzle your opponents with eloquence as high quality hater variant does because appearing invested in the issue spells certain death.
WIS: A very important stat, you always want to appear as knowing something that others don't, which adds to your persuasion score, and if you take the 'way of the east' perk you will be able to add your wisdom score to your deflection bonus whenever providing an answer that is tagged as 'vague'. Also adds to the judgement score, which helps determine the best moment to exit or leave the conversation.

lol

oldschool D&D player detected :D

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Raics wrote:

level 6: Demolition Expert - a failsafe, this perk enables you to reroll a failed persuasion attempt by presenting it as a misunderstanding

I use this perk on occasion myself!

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Raics wrote:

level 9: Iron Will - prevents you from truly taking sides instead of just appearing to do so, a must at high levels but best taken as early as possible

Never had this one.


A worthy contribution to the forum build section, included in the OP :)