Lab sucks

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

All the "white knights" should actually state that for the Labyrinth/Uber Labyrinth to stay the same as it is right now, GGG should at least make 2 concessions:

1. Make the Labyrinth runs a solo experience...

2. make an option of running the Uber Labyrinth once and receiving all the Ascendancy points at once ...

I totally agree with both, esp with 1.). Sadly GGG would never consider implementing 1.), because paying to get carried through content is the nature of PoE economy-centric design.

Anyway, as I have mentioned several times (targeted at OP):

* getting your first 6 asc points is easy and requires ~1hr of gameplay, if you do dem labs in one go, when you overlevel Merc

* the last two points can give you some considerable power creep, but are completely optional and are properly gated behind a more difficult Uber lab. If you wont make the effort, then you dont deserve the power.

* gating Asc points behind something trivial (eg.: killing Malachai), would compoletely de-valuate them and the whole Ascendancy expansion.

* The Lab is a great risk / reward zone. GGG just needs to improve stability of the instances.

Game development is a funny thing.

A single individual starter/developer has this idea:
It's a story that sounds great on paper and it has characters and it sets the scene. The story creates the game. They've got money to do it. They're in the right place to achieve it. It's a risk.

But developers do one of two things:
a) they build on the story and retain the original footprint of the game
or
b) they get inundated by specific players suited to the game style ignoring the story and pretty much everything else that makes any logical sense

The Ascendancy lab is a design geared toward the players of the game that got it started in the first place.
It has nothing to do with some kind of wall for anybody outside of it entering that space.


This is a rock and a hard place issue.

"

morbo wrote:

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

All the "white knights" should actually state that for the Labyrinth/Uber Labyrinth to stay the same as it is right now, GGG should at least make 2 concessions:

1. Make the Labyrinth runs a solo experience...

2. make an option of running the Uber Labyrinth once and receiving all the Ascendancy points at once ...

I totally agree with both, esp with 1.). Sadly GGG would never consider implementing 1.), because paying to get carried through content is the nature of PoE economy-centric design.

Anyway, as I have mentioned several times (targeted at OP):

* getting your first 6 asc points is easy and requires ~1hr of gameplay, if you do dem labs in one go, when you overlevel Merc

* the last two points can give you some considerable power creep, but are completely optional and are properly gated behind a more difficult Uber lab. If you wont make the effort, then you dont deserve the power.

* gating Asc points behind something trivial (eg.: killing Malachai), would compoletely de-valuate them and the whole Ascendancy expansion.

* The Lab is a great risk / reward zone. GGG just needs to improve stability of the instances.

They will have to do at least those concessions if they want "Ascendancy" to mean something, if not they are actually preparing an alternate way to obtain the points (or get an e-peen by watching the community divided for >6 months and go for a full year)...

But we do know that logic and common sense are not always employed by GGG, as the balance to CoC+Discharge - which by the way might receive a substantial buff as the view of the balance team might just placed it in a worse spot that all the poison double dipping and the ice wall mechanics - took so much time to finally surface...

I think lab is bad, because whatever you are looking for is at the end. You run 5-15 minutes for whatever is there, but one bad move, one desync, and you can start all over. No checkpoints, no gain in the meantime whatsoever. In a map you kill all the monsters, not just the boss. If you die in a map you loose a portal and some xp, but you can continue, and you can even enjoy clearing it, whilst in the lab you just run annoyed or bored (or both) all the way to the end. I hate it too, and I don't like the idea that I have to do something I really hate. 4 times. Per character.

"

orbankaroly wrote:

I think lab is bad, because whatever you are looking for is at the end. You run 5-15 minutes for whatever is there, but one bad move, one desync, and you can start all over. No checkpoints, no gain in the meantime whatsoever. In a map you kill all the monsters, not just the boss. If you die in a map you loose a portal and some xp, but you can continue, and you can even enjoy clearing it, whilst in the lab you just run annoyed or bored (or both) all the way to the end. I hate it too, and I don't like the idea that I have to do something I really hate. 4 times. Per character.

orbankaroly, thank you for voicing your opinion of the bad labyrinth that you, I, and many others hate. I've added you to the list at number 756. As the list grows longer our voice grows stronger. Over 300 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 750 posters in support

Here's orbankaroly's profile summary.

Guild:
Path of Exile Hungary

Joined:
Nov 26, 2013

Last Visited:
Apr 11, 2017

Total Forum Posts:
20 (0.02 posts per day)

Awakening Supporter
Aspirant Supporter
Prophecy Supporter

I assert that orbankaroly is a real person that generally loves PoE and is giving his honest opinion on the bad labyrinth that is shared by many. He has probably done this because he loves to play PoE and has made these suggestions to GGG to try to make the game he loves much better. He is not an alt-account. (This type of statement has upset others in the past. If that includes you then think about it and perhaps you will see the light.)

"

orbankaroly wrote:

I think lab is bad, because whatever you are looking for is at the end. You run 5-15 minutes for whatever is there, but one bad move, one desync, and you can start all over. No checkpoints, no gain in the meantime whatsoever. In a map you kill all the monsters, not just the boss. If you die in a map you loose a portal and some xp, but you can continue, and you can even enjoy clearing it, whilst in the lab you just run annoyed or bored (or both) all the way to the end. I hate it too, and I don't like the idea that I have to do something I really hate. 4 times. Per character.

are you ok with them removing ac classes from the game?

"

goetzjam wrote:

are you ok with them removing ac classes from the game?

An interesting question! I hope you don't mind me answering even though I wasn't the intended recipient.
If they were to release a client just for me, I'd say: "Yeah, if it saves hd space remove APs. I won't get them anyway."
But since there are poeple who don't mind doing the Lab it would be unfair to call for AP removal as a Lab hater.
If you don't want APs removed, try to put yourself in our shoes: for us APs are removed from the game!

Btw, regardless of whether or not I'm still getting APs I would like to see them reworked. I'd like them to be more interesting and less raw power.

"

Xeledon2132 wrote:

"

goetzjam wrote:

are you ok with them removing ac classes from the game?

An interesting question! I hope you don't mind me answering even though I wasn't the intended recipient.
If they were to release a client just for me, I'd say: "Yeah, if it saves hd space remove APs. I won't get them anyway."
But since there are poeple who don't mind doing the Lab it would be unfair to call for AP removal as a Lab hater.
If you don't want APs removed, try to put yourself in our shoes: for us APs are removed from the game!

Btw, regardless of whether or not I'm still getting APs I would like to see them reworked. I'd like them to be more interesting and less raw power.

There is no way for them to be more interesting without also opening up the option for them to be more powerful, lets say they nerf the power of AC points by half, not the values, not the number, but somehow with a redesign change it. Then what, it might get to the point where certain people don't really give a shit about doing them?


What if GGG changed them to be more heavily focused on lategame progression, instead of early game progression. Like my suggestion was to have 2-2-4, then people would not be so focused on having to achieve 3\4 of it so early, because only 1\2 was available prior to maps.


You say for "us" yet I can promise you that anyone with a largely active character has at least up to merciless complete, to me that isn't "they are already removed" and if you are playing the game in such a fashion, then just continue to play the game in such a fashion and stop requesting that GGG make the points easier to get. It is the single largest form of power creep GGG has really ever done and 3\4 of them have no cost or barrier really of entry.

"

Well stated!

The ascendancy points should be about focusing into specializations, not raw power boosts. Some of the classes do an okay job of it, while others look like plain thoughtlessness of design.

If there needs to be power creep offered in ascendancy points, it should be marginally better than what's offered in the rest of the tree. Same with enchants. The ones offering raw power need to be cut substantially. Currently, there's FAR too much power handed out on a silver platter for such a minimal effort.

Cut them too much and people won't spend the time to try and get them, specifically the helm enchants.



It seems like with your statement, you would support my 2-2-4 idea.