PSA: Alt:Alch Ratio is 8:1!

no, it's the ratio you can vendor alts to get a fusing and then trade for an alch. it actually takes four fusings to vendor up to an alch.

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Amonchakad wrote:

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Ola wrote:

I´d say:

Alt:alch = 7-10:1

If i needed alchs really badly i´d certainly not try to sell with 8:1. But those 12:1 ratios some people try to get is just an effort to benefit from someone not familiar with commonly used values.

If someone offered 7:1 for their alchemys, i´d take it.
8:1 would probably not interest me.


Fusings = alchemy is not written in stone. It´s a bartering system.


Edit: Idea behind this thread is nice. Informing people so they wont get ripped off is a good thing. Not disagreeing with that part.

It has not been mentioned yet in this thread, so I'll say it: "alts:alch 8:1" isn't some weird made-up ratio. It's the ratio at which you can vendor alts to get an alch. buying an alch for 10 alts from another player is implcitly a ripoff.

You can get a fusing orb for 8 alts at a vendor, not an alchemy.

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Elynole wrote:

I believe a dev(Chris?) had posted a while back, when the controversy set in regarding 2-name matching alch crafting, that NPCs would always low ball you in crafting for orbs compared to what they were worth and that the intention is for players to create their own market and trade for orbs/gear instead of solely relying on NPC vendors for their items.

But that statement is irrelevant to this issue.

The player-created economy has the common exchange rate of Fusing:Alch 1:1, because despite fusings being more plentiful and easily crafted than Alchs, they're in high demand ramping up their price. This exchange rate has been the same for over a year now.

People want to trade their Alchs for Alts. Not the other way around. The MAXIMUM amount of Alterations you can ask for an Alch is 8, because of the Alch:Fusing exchange rate explained in my PSA. You could ask fewer Alts per Alch, but asking more is objectively a ripoff. Yet that's exactly what a lot of people are doing.

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0nin wrote:

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Elynole wrote:

I believe a dev(Chris?) had posted a while back, when the controversy set in regarding 2-name matching alch crafting, that NPCs would always low ball you in crafting for orbs compared to what they were worth and that the intention is for players to create their own market and trade for orbs/gear instead of solely relying on NPC vendors for their items.

But that statement is irrelevant to this issue.

The player-created economy has the common exchange rate of Fusing:Alch 1:1, because despite fusings being more plentiful and easily crafted than Alchs, they're in high demand ramping up their price. This exchange rate has been the same for over a year now.

People want to trade their Alchs for Alts. Not the other way around. The MAXIMUM amount of Alterations you can ask for an Alch is 8, because of the Alch:Fusing exchange rate explained in my PSA. You could ask fewer Alts per Alch, but asking more is objectively a ripoff. Yet that's exactly what a lot of people are doing.

I can ask for 15 if I wanted to. Doesn't mean anybody is going to trade with me. Current exchange rates do not inhibit me from attempting to get a little extra value out of my orbs.

It's in the nature of humans to try to rip anyone off if you can get away with it. I'm not trying to guilt you into using proper exchange rates or anything. I'm just spreading the knowledge so people don't let themselves get ripped off.

The worst that could happen is that enough people actually take the 1:15 exchange rate for granted that it actually becomes the real exchange rate. That'd screw over jeweler, chromatic and fusing values, and might even backlash onto higher orbs as well.

I mean, just look at what happened to Exalts. From when I got into PoE until the end of CB the exchange was a solid 1:6, even during the last CB wipe. Now it's suddenly 1:5. How did that happen?

people decided gcps were worth more

According to the vendor:

1 alchemy = 1 regret
1 regret = 2 scouring
2 scouring = 8 chance
8 chance = 8 fusing
8 fusing = 32 jewelers
32 jewelers = 64 alteration

Therefore:

1 alchemy = 64 alterations

The vendor recipe provides an upper limitation on the value of alchemy orbs. They cannot be worth more than 64 alterations. However, they can be worth any amount below 64 alterations.

The real problem is that the market value for fusings is more than the market value for alterations at vendor ratios. One fusing is worth more than 8 alterations on the player side of things. This shouldn't be possible.

Imagine if a dollar was worth more than 4 quarters but the bank still gave you a dollar for your 4 quarters. That's the situation we have here.

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Ansalem1 wrote:

According to the vendor:

1 alchemy = 1 regret
1 regret = 2 scouring
2 scouring = 8 chance
8 chance = 8 fusing
8 fusing = 32 jewelers
32 jewelers = 64 alteration

Therefore:

1 alchemy = 64 alterations

The vendor recipe provides an upper limitation on the value of alchemy orbs. They cannot be worth more than 64 alterations. However, they can be worth any amount below 64 alterations.

The real problem is that the market value for fusings is more than the market value for alterations at vendor ratios. One fusing is worth more than 8 alterations on the player side of things. This shouldn't be possible.

Imagine if a dollar was worth more than 4 quarters but the bank still gave you a dollar for your 4 quarters. That's the situation we have here.

Actually this isn't quite true. The service of trading one currency to another also costs a fee, which can mean that a 400 quarters might not give you 100 dollars. It could very well be the same case in this game especially considering how trading in alterations is. I traded in over 800 alterations once and it took me quite a while to do so.

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Aelloon wrote:

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Ansalem1 wrote:

According to the vendor:

1 alchemy = 1 regret
1 regret = 2 scouring
2 scouring = 8 chance
8 chance = 8 fusing
8 fusing = 32 jewelers
32 jewelers = 64 alteration

Therefore:

1 alchemy = 64 alterations

The vendor recipe provides an upper limitation on the value of alchemy orbs. They cannot be worth more than 64 alterations. However, they can be worth any amount below 64 alterations.

The real problem is that the market value for fusings is more than the market value for alterations at vendor ratios. One fusing is worth more than 8 alterations on the player side of things. This shouldn't be possible.

Imagine if a dollar was worth more than 4 quarters but the bank still gave you a dollar for your 4 quarters. That's the situation we have here.

Actually this isn't quite true. The service of trading one currency to another also costs a fee, which can mean that a 400 quarters might not give you 100 dollars. It could very well be the same case in this game especially considering how trading in alterations is. I traded in over 800 alterations once and it took me quite a while to do so.

You're missing the point.

Okay, let me put it another way.

Imagine that people were trading their dollars for 6 quarters to everyone who isn't a bank, and the bank was giving 1 dollar for every 4 quarters. Every two transactions outside of the bank earns you 1.5x your market value from the bank. (You're trading in 2 dollars for 3 dollars).

That's exactly analogous to what is happening here. The upper value limits set by the vendors are being ignored by the player market. That makes the vendors a great way to abuse the player market for arbitrary gain. (People trade in 2 alchemy orbs for 3 alchemy orbs).

I don't understand why people get their panties tied in a knot over people that are trading above --link removed--.

I do admit I will trade 10:1 for Alteration:Alchemy and constantly asks for such trade in the trade channel. Look at it this way - NO ONE (or very few) will actually give you an Alch for 8 Alterations because for most people, Alterations are easy to come by and they'd prefer to keep the Alchemy unless they really really really want to have an alchemy at that moment.

For people like me, I'm always available to trade your alterations for alchemy at 10:1. Am I ripping people off? No. I'm not forcing anyone to trade. My service is always available, no questions asked but at a small premium.

Think of it like a money changing service. When you convert your US dollars to say Euro, you won't get anyone to trade with you at the ongoing market rate unless you are converting millions at the bank. For a few hundred dollars, you go to the money changer (who is again always available and no questions asked) for a small premium. For kids that have no notion of global currencies and exchange rates, sorry I don't have other analogies for you.

Again I want to say very few people will give you an alch for 8 alterations, whatever --link removed-- says. I am there to provide an outlet for people to buy alchs with their alterations at a small premium. And I have to WORK for it. Converting stuff to fusings, selling fusings etc etc.

I do understand that there will always be people who will maintain the 8:1 ratio, so good luck finding a trade partner. I'm sure there are some out there that will take 8alts for an alch but I'm also sure you'll have to look harder/longer for such a trader.

For those that trades 12:1 or 15:1, well again this is a free market - so buyers beware is the best policy. Until the day I come and forces you to trade at knife-point, it is probably pointless to continue to cry "scam".