[2.3] IMMORTAL-END OF ALL-JAGGER-CoC/Mjolnir Discharge(Expensive/OP/Perm IC/Best Build?)

The "guide" is not really clear.

I assume it uses Romira's Banquet to generate Power Charges?

pcoc. power charge on crit- in the gem links.

I don't know why you think this will be better than regular Energy Shield CoC.
(Using Vagan-Dagger, Voll's Devotion and Voll's Protector)

The "free" juggernaut endurance charges changes nothing, if you have 5 power and 5 endurance charges, Voll's Devotion will provide you with maximum endurance charges already.
Also, damage will scale higher with Critical Strike Multiplier and Attack Speed from 4-mod Jewels rather than going 10 x Spectrum for 50% increased elemental damage from each jewel. If you use your skill-points for more efficient scaling nodes than Grand Spectrum.


By using Kingsguard for healing you are limiting yourself to heal about 1200 each discharge proc, which is significantly less than you will be able to leech with Vaal pact.
Healing 1200 is in no way enough to sustain against Reflecting Monsters, you will die if your damage is high enough.

Being "immune" to physical damage with Immortal Call is nothing new for CoC as you will be able to have it last as long as it's cooldown simply by having 1 additional Endurance Charge somewhere, and IC lasting 3.37 seconds from a level 1 CWDT is perfectly fine.

You gain little by going Life Based rather than going Energy Shield, you are automatically stun-immune during cyclone, and your life pool will be a lot lower than with energy shield.


Fire Penetration and Power Charge on Critical are weak gems, you can overcome resistance by taking Elemental Equilibrium for a similar effect and generate Power Charges with Voll's Protector a lot faster.
PCoC is limited with it only giving 1 charges no matter how many monsters you face, and subjected to 54% roll.
You will spend some time with less than maximum Power Charges waiting for Blade Vortex to generate them after a Discharge. And even if you roll a critical strike without the PC's you will cast a fire-only discharge that will not shock.
This problem get's mitigated after cycloning on monsters a short time and getting enough blade vortex buffs stacked. However, the monsters should already be dead by that time.
Using PCoC over Voll's protector will make it more likely to fail in generating charges/critical striking when engaging fresh packs of monsters.

"

lordaleksander wrote:

I don't know why you think this will be better than regular Energy Shield CoC.
(Using Vagan-Dagger, Voll's Devotion and Voll's Protector)

The "free" juggernaut endurance charges changes nothing, if you have 5 power and 5 endurance charges, Voll's Devotion will provide you with maximum endurance charges already.
Also, damage will scale higher with Critical Strike Multiplier and Attack Speed from 4-mod Jewels rather than going 10 x Spectrum for 50% increased elemental damage from each jewel. If you use your skill-points for more efficient scaling nodes than Grand Spectrum.


By using Kingsguard for healing you are limiting yourself to heal about 1200 each discharge proc, which is significantly less than you will be able to leech with Vaal pact.
Healing 1200 is in no way enough to sustain against Reflecting Monsters, you will die if your damage is high enough.

Being "immune" to physical damage with Immortal Call is nothing new for CoC as you will be able to have it last as long as it's cooldown simply by having 1 additional Endurance Charge somewhere, and IC lasting 3.37 seconds from a level 1 CWDT is perfectly fine.

You gain little by going Life Based rather than going Energy Shield, you are automatically stun-immune during cyclone, and your life pool will be a lot lower than with energy shield.


Fire Penetration and Power Charge on Critical are weak gems, you can overcome resistance by taking Elemental Equilibrium for a similar effect and generate Power Charges with Voll's Protector a lot faster.
PCoC is limited with it only giving 1 charges no matter how many monsters you face, and subjected to 54% roll.
You will spend some time with less than maximum Power Charges waiting for Blade Vortex to generate them after a Discharge. And even if you roll a critical strike without the PC's you will cast a fire-only discharge that will not shock.
This problem get's mitigated after cycloning on monsters a short time and getting enough blade vortex buffs stacked. However, the monsters should already be dead by that time.
Using PCoC over Voll's protector will make it more likely to fail in generating charges/critical striking when engaging fresh packs of monsters.

Thats complete bullcrap because powercharge generation is tied to attack speed and crit. You would have to hit 5 times in between CoC proc. You are also missing the point with Voll's Protector as its a complete garbage armour and is used only as main source of power charges. If you dont need power charges or need only 1 to get 8 endurance charges Kingsguard gives a FUCK TONE of life and same dmg or better - you can proc always on full charges.

Ill update the build when i get some time - probably in the evening.

Still gotta add Mjolnoob version and few versions of CoC. There are few ways to build Jagger CoC. Either of them means that as soon as you get Voll's Devotion -> you are immortal...

"

eragon1111 wrote:

--- Proof of concept - Just how BAD GGG is at balancing the game ---

MJOLNIR Discharge version

To be honest i like this version a lot more.

Requirements:
- Level 100 Marauder
- Voll's Devotion
- 6/5l KingsGuard
- As many +1 endurance charge items you can get
- Mjolnir
- Romaria's Banquet

Ascendency:

Juggernaut with Unrelating / Undeniable / Unyelding

Gems:

Mjolnoob - Discharge - FirePen - Discharge

Chest: MoltenShell/Lightning Strike - GMP - MultiStrike - FasterAttacks - Fortify - Blood Magic/ or w/e

Lowest CWDT - INCREASED DURATION - IC

TREE

http://poeplanner.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

Thats nearly exactly what i wanted to provocate with my post as i told u check to mjölner =)

"

Nyurael wrote:

have u thought about skipping dagger nodes and just use mjölner with 2x Discharge + Shock Nova in it combined with EE ?

Nearly the same tree as i got.
I just want to try EE with fire pen <> shock nova

Also Phoenix + RF would be possible

"

Nyurael wrote:

"

eragon1111 wrote:

--- Proof of concept - Just how BAD GGG is at balancing the game ---

MJOLNIR Discharge version

To be honest i like this version a lot more.

Requirements:
- Level 100 Marauder
- Voll's Devotion
- 6/5l KingsGuard
- As many +1 endurance charge items you can get
- Mjolnir
- Romaria's Banquet

Ascendency:

Juggernaut with Unrelating / Undeniable / Unyelding

Gems:

Mjolnoob - Discharge - FirePen - Discharge

Chest: MoltenShell/Lightning Strike - GMP - MultiStrike - FasterAttacks - Fortify - Blood Magic/ or w/e

Lowest CWDT - INCREASED DURATION - IC

TREE

http://poeplanner.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

Thats nearly exactly what i wanted to provocate with my post as i told u check to mjölner =)

"

Nyurael wrote:

have u thought about skipping dagger nodes and just use mjölner with 2x Discharge + Shock Nova in it combined with EE ?

Nearly the same tree as i got.
I just want to try EE with fire pen <> shock nova

Also Phoenix + RF would be possible

This topic is solely created to prove how bad GGG is at balancing... Ive created this tree in like 2 min -> Both versions require 0 skill and resolve only around BIS gear "ONE button gaming"

Are you able to run RF with RotP? Sure why not.
Is EE really required ? Mby, but you can grab it if you can. I would drop points from Duelist to do that.

Is the basic idea the same like everyone moderately advanced spewed after seein Juggernaut tree change ? YES, it was so clear that GGG is forcing discharge meta for this league...

Do i think its a bad design/balancing ? YES...

It was "equally" boring 2 leagues back to see everyone only farming for Voll's and Headhunter because everything else was pointless or weaker.

"

Thats complete bullcrap because powercharge generation is tied to attack speed and crit. You would have to hit 5 times in between CoC proc. You are also missing the point with Voll's Protector as its a complete garbage armour and is used only as main source of power charges. If you dont need power charges or need only 1 to get 8 endurance charges Kingsguard gives a FUCK TONE of life and same dmg or better - you can proc always on full charges.

With Voll's Protector Spell critical can be 95% when you Discharge, if you hit 3 monsters they will give 3 Power Charges on crit. If your Cyclone crit the same 3 monsters and proc CoC you will Discharge with 6 Power Charges, and 6 Endurance Charges with Voll's Devotion. Which is why Blade Vortex is good against fewer targets.
Which means that you need a maximum of 3 attacks between CoC or less with more than 1 monsters/BV-stacks. Typically you will have 4/5+6(single target) or 6+6(2+ monsters) Charges when you Discharge.
Power Charge generation is tied to number of monsters, crit(95%) and number of spells cast.
Attack speed got little to do with generation, because it equally determine how often you Discharge.

If you proc with 1 PC and 8 EC you Discharge critical strike chance will only be 42.2% even with -8 diamond rings. With 0 PC's Your Blade Vortex will only average 0.19 Power Charges per stack each second with your set-up, and that requires you to be on top of monsters.
Opposed to 0.60 PC's per BV stack TIMES each monster in range with Voll's Protector and minimum possible crit chance.
My point is that you will lack critical strike chance without Voll's Protector's extreme PC generation.

You say you can always proc on full EC charges, that is not right.
You will fail 46% of the time when PCoC don't give a PC on Cyclone Critical Strike and you trigger you CoC. Provided it's your first critical against a pack of monsters.
This also happen after a non-critical discharge, 46% on discharge if if kills the monsters and there is nothing to BV and on initialy engaging monsters in a new map/after sorting loot.
What this means is that you can Cyclone around for several seconds without anything happening, you will get no healing from Kingsguard and have a 0.4 sec IC, only. And possible die if you are in a dangerous map.
This is not some freak scenario, and will happen occasionally because your proposed critical strike chance is too low.

Your Kingsguard will only heal 800 with 8 EC's for each Discharge no matter how many monsters you attack, so you can never attack multiple monsters with elemental reflection.
Or sustain against heavy elemental damage, if your map have mods like Monsters deal 110% extra Damage as Cold/Fire/Lightning as it will go through Immortal Call. Or bosses casting spells.
Even with the perfect set-up you will not be able to average more than about 2.7 Discharges per second against single target, and I think in practice it will be significantly less. Because of the critical strike chance problem I mentioned.

How much maximum life can you get with 157% life, 7K with great rares?
By going Voll's Protector and ES you can have 11.5K+ Energy Shield.

You say Voll's Protector is complete garbage, why? It basically give infinite(sufficient) Power and Endurance charge generation with Voll's Devotion in a Cast on Crit set-up.

OP was too hype, he's wont listen, why bother write these long post :))

"

Giaocolam wrote:

OP was too hype, he's wont listen, why bother write these long post :))

Felt nice going through the perks of CoC discharge in my head, I think I'll be going if for prophecy.

"

Giaocolam wrote:

OP was too hype, he's wont listen, why bother write these long post :))

You didn't even read one of my posts after OP didn't you ?

This league will be INFESTED with endurance dischargers - i despise this skill soo much but i know how to build around it just from experience...

You can and people will build this league discharge coc that is immune to physical damage and almost immune to elemental damage and reflect - im sure of it. If i can in 2 min build endgame viable tree for one Jaggernaut node - there will be people planning it for 2 upcomming days.

Ill be highly surprised if in a week of league someone doesn't post thread with topic "Lolololo i can 1 button afk farm Core gema so hard"... It will happen - and im here to inspire people to build Kingsguard - coc - discharge with volls devotion.

Why ? Because balance team has to see how they fucked up...