[Concept] Crit 2H Cleave Slayer for 2.3

Hey guys,
after reading the balance changes for Prophecy, I fell in love for the Slayer Ascendancy. So I decided to screw the thoughts of making an ED/Contagion Scion and began to think about a Crit Cleave 2H-build.
My thoughts were making a life-based, EV/Armor build with Iron Reflexes for defense.
Ascendancy both 4-passive trees.
For offense as much phys-dmg for 2H/swords as possible and crit as well. Also got some life leech nodes to make sure that I don't need Unwavering Stance, because of Brutal Fervor.
I thought having Graceful Assault would be nice to have, since Bane of Legends getting OP as f*ck with 20sec Onslaught from rare enemies.

Here's the tree:


I never played a Duelist before, would appreciate for any suggestions for passives, cheap starting uniques or if Reave > Cleave.
Last bumped on Aug 25, 2016, 10:24:47 AM
Hey man, I've had a duelist for a little while now, and I think your tree looks great for what you're going for. What I remember about cleave/reave is that you gotta watchout for reflect. I know this is a given, but I've seen so many of my crit buddies 1 shot themselves on easy maps so just watch out for it. Of course, acuities helps with that but aren't exactly leveling gloves ;)

I'm actually very curious about lacerate :) I'm not convinced it's anything more than a leveling skill, but you can try that. It's supposed to be a lot like reave from what I hear.

I made a couple changes to the tree if you feel like you need a more defensive approach if you find yourself a little bit squishy:



Get a Kaom's heart the very first chance you get, I got one in perandus 2nd week for under 1ex so if you can keep up with your drops/recipes/selling that would be the first big hurdle. Before that, just use anything chest with life/res on it, and life/flat phys on your diamond rings/ammy is a MUST. Must keep your res's capped. Jewels with life/attack speed/all res (or dual res)/2H attk spd are going to be the best if you find any with those 4 mods together.

A rats nest with a good enchant you could use would be the best offensive helm (I personally don't like abyssus), but sometimes keeping your res's in check with kaoms/rats nest can be challenging. You can sometimes find a good rats nest a melee enchant on it for cheap because most of the guys that use them are using bows. Just be patient and keep an eye on xyz, refresh every couple days. I got a Rat's nest with leap slam enchant for 20c in PSC. Speaking of leap slam, put fortify linked to your leap slam of course :)

I know you're setup for swords at this moment, but Kaom's primacy axe could get you a long way, has built in culling, and axes have +1 more range than swords so any attack with an AoE tag would be a little bigger. Also, if you had an axe you could use Earthquake which is just insane :)

Once you are a bit more established and have your Kaom's and a 5l 2h sword/axe, I highly recommend acrobatics/phase acrobatics with a Kaom's, my level 100 Champion I've done testing with and (I know I'm speaking from the extreme here), but I actually prefer to have 9.5k life w/ acro+phase acro instaed of 13k life. Anyway, just a thought! Here's a tree with axes/acro:




Good luck out there!
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Last edited by Ahfack on May 27, 2016, 12:57:40 AM
Hey man,
thx for the reply, but the crit build was made for 2.3, dunno if you have read the patch notes, but here some things I already calculated in:
-I don't need culling strike since Bane of Legends gives you 20% culling strike permanently
-Axes are neat, no doubt, but kinda wanted some constant dps this time, it really sucks if you have bunch of dmg, but not hitting anything
-I HATE EARTHQUAKE. 'nuff said xD It's just not my playstyle
-Most important fact why I'm going for crit in the first place: 50% reduced REFLECTED physical damage taken from Headsman, so I don't really think that reflect should be an issue anymore

Also curious about Lacerate as well, have to see about the scaling and if those slashes are actually projectiles or something else like Sunder. (edit: it is like sunder, but will aoe radius increase the arc radius as well? gonna test it out)
I don't really think that you can compare the new leagues economy with Perandus, but Kaom's Heart sounds nice if I should get one cheap.
Would rather go full armor Tank than making the effort and go for Acrobatics (Played a Juggernaut until 71 which was fine in terms of tankyness, but it really lacked dmg in mid-tier maps)

I think, the way of items I would choose would be those (would get any of those if they're cheap enough):

-2H-Sword: Doomsower
-Body Armour: Daresso's Defiance/Belly of the Beast/Kaom's Heart
-Helmet: Rat's Nest/Rare (maybe Abyssus depending on sustain)
-Gloves: Rare
-Boots: Rare
-Belt: Head-... Just kidding, Rare
-Amulet/Rings: All Rare

About skill gems I still have to think about, but the main links should be:
4L: Leap Slam/Blood Magic/Fortify/Faster Attacks
4L: Hatred(or Grace)/Herald of Ash/Curse on Hit/Warlord's Mark
4L: Blood Rage/Inc Duration/CWDT/Immortal Call
5L: Cleave(or Lacerate)/Melee phys Dmg/Multistrike/Faster Attacks/Conc Effect(or Incr AoE)

That should be enough tinkering for now, can't wait to this build out.
Last edited by Flavourius on May 27, 2016, 11:40:48 AM
Yeah I think you got what you need man! Even with 50% reflect (especially if you go a non-koams route) I feel one shotting yourself with con effect on some crits is still possible because the damage output is so high. GGG loves to throw in their double reflects too, and your hatred could eat your lunch pretty quickly. Especially with multistrike! That one attack is now several attacks. Of course these are L93+ problems since you can bounce back pretty quickly before that.

Doomsower will definitely get you by. I'm curious to see the difference if any between the 15%Aoe it has and a +2range craft mod for aoe attacks.
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Last edited by Ahfack on May 27, 2016, 12:51:22 PM
Well, conc effect will be only used for bosses anyway and if I shouldn't sustain through leech, then Grace will do the thing instead of hatred. I know how hard hitting ele reflect is (played Inquisitor crit arc with Call of the Brotherhood with 83% crit chance), but with only 15% fire dmg it shouldn't be that bad. Also mobs will only have 10% reflect (without map mods), that means only 5% of my total dmg dealt will be reflected as slayer and since I'm not having 100% penetration like I was used to my Inquisitor.
Get this: even with 2 crits from spell echo arc (which is dealing almost 45k dps btw without charges) I can't one shot myself with 5k hp. Well also had EB and MOM as well so only 14% was reflected. But even then I did the math: if 100% of my highest dmg output would be reflected at 20% (around 8.3k with 348% crit multiplier) I would only lose around 2.9k life. The only time I kill myself is because I cast to fast (3.83 casts per sec) and not because I oneshot myself (there is no thing like oneshotting if you are decent amount of health and not going full derp mode glass cannon). I also don't get why people NEED phys to ele dmg conversion for dmg taken like Taste of Hate or Lightning Coil, those things are only quality of life and not need items...
Yo mate. Im studying a 2h slayer too. Though, even myself I dont play a melee since a couple of years.

This is my tree. Ascendancy passives: Brutal Fervour and Headsman.

I can say i have taken maybe too much eva. It is replaceble with life nodes. I think this tree gives a good amount of damage bonus (though im not sure, I said I dont play a melee for so much time).


Notes:
1) I went Acro/Phase Acro because we just need a decent amount of life and a huge bonus of leech. With eva/dodge, we will be hit only sometimes, and this will let us always with max life whenever we get a hit because of the very very fast leech (188% life leech rate and 6% life leech only from passives). So, we need a defence against spells, and this is provided by Phase acro + Atziri's Steps + Quartz Flask (+vaal grace for some though bosses like Megaera. And if you feel unconfortable, you can also go for Hyrri's Hire that gives an additional 10% dodge on attacks and spells).
We need a decent life pool in order to not be shotted whenever eva/dodge doesn't save us. (5k is enough?)

2) Uber leech, which is the core of the build. The Slayer's ascendancy points doesnt give you life leech (just a worthless 0.4%). With passives you can get so much leech near the duelist area. The 188% life leech rate makes the leech almost istant, that's why we need more leech from the tree. The rest is up to the weapon damage.

3) A great defence comes from flask, especially for this class. In fact, basing this build on leech, free us the flask slot of life flask, we will carry one or two only (we'll use a good number of life flasks just for the lab, coz of traps). One flask will surely be Quartz. Another one could be Granite for a bit of armor (maybe Lioneye's for more melee damage also), or jade flask for more eva. Others can be res flasks: atziri's or vinktar's or taste of hate.

4) Gear will be all rare, that looks for eva, life, res and some damage. The only piece required would just be Atziri' step. If you want, Hyrri's. Top weapon probably will be Disfavour, but I hope GGG is going to add a powerful two handed weapon. I studied the build basing on axes, but you can easily put the points on sword. Im prepared to do that in case i can only get a good sword and not an axe.
I think with the setup I made, and with some accuracy mods on the gear, the chance to hit won't be a huge problem. But if still is a problem, changing to sword can surely help, and if it isn't enough then it will possible to go for RT.

5) Skill: dunno here. I will probably test EQ, but maybe Reave will be better. I'll test everything.

6) Jewels and charges. You should get at least 3 jew socket coz you can get strong bonuses from jewels. Frenzy charges are the best way to boost the damage, and attack speed is so good.
Last edited by Serge91 on May 28, 2016, 9:14:28 AM
"
The 188% life leech rate makes the leech almost istant, that's why we need more leech from the tree. The rest is up to the weapon damage.


No it doesn't :\

Life leech rate will just increase the amount which leech instances leech.
Example following:

Leech instances are initially capped at 2% of max life per second
Their duration is directly proportional to hit damage * % life leeched
Without Endless Hunger the max amount of leech instances is determined by max leech cap (20% without anything, 40% with slayer nodes + passive nodes).

Examples:
Spoiler

Example 1.
No passive nodes / slayer nodes, 6k life, 3000 damage hit, 4% life leech:

Leech instances possible: 20% / 2% = 10
Max leech per instance per second: 2% * 6000 = 120 per second
Max leech possible: 10 instances * 120 = 1200 per second (20% max life)
Leech instance duration: ( 3000 * 4% ) / 120 = 1 second
Hits to cap leech: 10 hits during 1 seconds => 10 hits per second vs single target, divide by number of enemies for multi target (so 5 hits per second if hitting 2 targets for example)

Example 2.
6k life, 3000 damage hit, 8% life leech
+20% max life leech
+180% life leech rate
instances don't expire

Instance leech: 2% * 2.8 = 5.6% life per second
Leech instances to hit cap: (20% + 20%) / 5.6% = 7.14, rounded up: 8 instances
Max leech per instance per second: 5.6% * 6000 = 336 per second
Max leech possible: 6000 * 0.4 = 2400 life per second
Leech instance duration: (3000 * 8%) / 120 = 2 seconds
Hits to cap leech: 8 hits over 2 seconds => 4 hits per second vs single target, divide by number of enemies for multi target


After a certain point, getting more %life is better for overall survival as it is tied with leech.
[2.2] The Vampire - Tanky 2H Axe Slayer Duelist - /view-thread/1611662
Last edited by Mannoth on May 28, 2016, 1:07:01 PM
"
Serge91 wrote:

5) Skill: dunno here. I will probably test EQ, but maybe Reave will be better. I'll test everything.


You can't use Reave with 2H weapons. Other than that your gear really reminds me of my Ed/Cont-Trickster. I have Hyrri's Ire and the Steps with 55/61% attack/spell dodge it also works really well with something like 50% base evasion (66% with flasks) and around 5.5k effective health (4k HP and 1.5k ES). The reason why I would consider going full armor with Iron Reflexes is because of the fact how many red sockets you will need. Even with having a 6L 2H weapon it wont be cheap on chromas to color full eva items for your trigger links/utility/auras.
As for my Trickster, I was kinda immortal because I also had Temp Chains with Blasphemy, which would not work that well either as a melee char. Any mark-curse would be better, especially Assassin's mark for more crit and Warlord's mark for better sustain (for frenzy charges just go with blood rage).

As for your build you don't need that much mana leech, I have a 81 Deadeye, though with vaal pact, but the hybrid 0.4% mana/hp-leech is everything I need to not use mana flasks ever again. If you still should struggle then get a ring with 50-60% mana regen and extra mana, that should be good enough. Other than that you have way too mana res-nodes, it's not hard to get res on your gear. Better respec for more dmg or for more life like thick skin above point blank.
"
Flavourius wrote:
"
Serge91 wrote:

5) Skill: dunno here. I will probably test EQ, but maybe Reave will be better. I'll test everything.


You can't use Reave with 2H weapons. Other than that your gear really reminds me of my Ed/Cont-Trickster. I have Hyrri's Ire and the Steps with 55/61% attack/spell dodge it also works really well with something like 50% base evasion (66% with flasks) and around 5.5k effective health (4k HP and 1.5k ES). The reason why I would consider going full armor with Iron Reflexes is because of the fact how many red sockets you will need. Even with having a 6L 2H weapon it wont be cheap on chromas to color full eva items for your trigger links/utility/auras.
As for my Trickster, I was kinda immortal because I also had Temp Chains with Blasphemy, which would not work that well either as a melee char. Any mark-curse would be better, especially Assassin's mark for more crit and Warlord's mark for better sustain (for frenzy charges just go with blood rage).

As for your build you don't need that much mana leech, I have a 81 Deadeye, though with vaal pact, but the hybrid 0.4% mana/hp-leech is everything I need to not use mana flasks ever again. If you still should struggle then get a ring with 50-60% mana regen and extra mana, that should be good enough. Other than that you have way too mana res-nodes, it's not hard to get res on your gear. Better respec for more dmg or for more life like thick skin above point blank.


Well i know i won't need so much mana leech. But i took those two clusters for 2 reasons: the biggest mana leech notable is in the route for the big bonus of the life leech notable (if i'd took only the life leech i would waste more points to get to it); the other one instead gives 20% flask charge gained and 20% flask duration, which is VERY IMPORTANT imho: I took it for this reason.

Yeah for frenzy with a decent life reg i'll use blood rage. Dunno about Vaal Pact, i think that 180% leech rate per second should make leech very fast (not istant, but very fast: i can see the improvements when I use the life leech support gem while its level increase).

This is my first time I play a 2h character. Sad I'll not be able to use Reave with 2h. Well, I'll try then the new lacerate (wiki says it can be used with axes and sword without specifing if only 1h or even 2h, so i suppose even 2h is ok)? Otherwise, EQ. What other choices there are? I dont like too much Cyclone's mechanic... but if my atk speed is very high, it will probably be the best choice.

About colours. If i'll go for Hyrri's (i don't think it will be necessary, i think i'll go with a rare chest full eva or arm/eva with high eva), then surely i'll try to make 5l-6l on the weapon: axes and swords are tipically str/dex hybrid right? Don't think that it will be a big problem to get the right colours on it: melee needs only a blue gem (maybe 2 with 6l).

For res yeah, if they won't be needed they are going to be taken out in order to get more life. But the more ele res you can get from passives, the more chaos res you can afford on the gear. I can see that, in the last 2 years, so many monsters do chaos damage: so now chaos res is very very important.

"
Mannoth wrote:


After a certain point, getting more %life is better for overall survival as it is tied with leech.


Sure it will be focused even on scaling the life, i hope to reach a life pool around 5-6k. With the passives i got, the maximum life leech recovered in a second is 43% (we get another 20% from the passive tree), which is high. The more dps, the faster you reach the 43%cap. %life helps a lot, especially on speed recovery, but the leech recovery its great: i've calculated that with very low dps with 2h (10k) you can leech 350 with a single leech istance in a second with 5k hp. This is great. There will also be other benefits from ascendancy like overleech and leech that doesnt stops even at maximum life, this should help a lot but im not sure about that.
I will do everything possible to reach 6k hp, though with 2h i don't think it will be so easy without Kaom's.
Last edited by Serge91 on May 29, 2016, 7:07:59 AM
You will easily get over 5k hp with your current build (My Inquisitor also only has 140% increased HP and with decent Hybrid ES/HP gear I got 5k myself and around 2.5k ES for MOM/EB).
And if not Kaom's, there is always the cheaper variant Belly of the Beast. But in general my opinion would be to go more sustain rather going more dmg as melee, just a thought.

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