[Champion] Worthy Foe - Additional Chance to Stun?

Ok, here's the deal, in the Champion ascendancy taunt branch we have the Worthy Foe notable saying:
"Enemies you taunt have 20% increased chance to be stunned"
So, you'd reason something like this - if your chance to stun is calculated to be 40% this would push it to 48%, seems pretty clear cut.

However, check this out:
https://youtu.be/5MLNKtWVofs

Merciless Voll is clearly getting stunned by the kind of gnat bites you can see on my tooltip at the start of the video (plus 20% damage taken but minus his resists with half of my damage being elemental). The only thing I can think of to explain it is that the passive actually grants 'additional chance to be stunned', like Warlord's Mark.

Now, the value on WM is low and curse resist on bosses lowers it further so it isn't an issue, however, 20% additional chance to stun pushes you right over the stun threshold, so what it actually means is that you could stunlock an endgame boss with two level 1 flame totems.

So, it's one of these:
- the description is right and the passive is bugged
- the passive is intentionally broken and the description is wrong
- I'm missing something crucial here
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Last edited by raics on May 16, 2016, 7:56:51 PM
Last bumped on May 26, 2016, 6:37:31 AM
Thanks for the report, we'll take a look into this and see whats going on.
A guildmate who refuses to post on the forums has made extensive use of this node.

It reads to us as "additional chance", whereas we would read "more chance" in the manner you mention. I agree that GGG should make the wording on Warmark and Worthy For the same, since they seem to have the same effect.

Stun guns a guaranteed minimum duration, so you only really need 21% with a high aps damage delivery mechanism (eg blade vortex) to ensure stunlock.

The problem he ran into with bosses was that they seemed to have some undocumented stun-break mechanisms which let them exit this stun lock situation. As he was leveling past 90 in PHC utilizing this node, the undocumented stun breaks were sort of distressing.

He has emailed Mark about this directly, with no adequate response.

Lets see what Jason comes back with. Hope he replies on this post with his findings.
Having played a fair share of Stunrauder, I can say with fair certainty there's no "stun breaking" - what he's more likely to be seeing is his puny Damage rolling too low to reach the minimum Stun Chance threshold, thus dropping him from 20% to 0% Stun Chance.
Last edited by Vipermagi on May 17, 2016, 4:08:50 PM
"
Vipermagi wrote:
Having played a fair share of Stunrauder, I can say with fair certainty there's no "stun breaking" - what he's more likely to be seeing is his puny Damage rolling too low to reach the minimum Stun Chance threshold, thus dropping him from 20% to 0% Stun Chance.


Right, I also noticed that, you need to have at least 1% stun chance to go over the threshold so if the damage is extremely puny it won't work. The thing about level 1 flame totems was a hyperbole, they would die instantly anyway.
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"
raics wrote:
The only thing I can think of to explain it is that the passive actually grants 'additional chance to be stunned', like Warlord's Mark.
This is correct. The description will be fixed.

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sherkhan wrote:
He has emailed Mark about this directly, with no adequate response.
For the record, I have received no such email (and for future reference, forum PMs are a better way to contact me privately).
Thanks for the reply Mark!

I was all set to make a Slayer with the cool slayer Stun node (I figured with chance to double stun duration, and 100% chance to stun on full life, together with stun duration mods and nodes you could kill most enemies - even rares - before they got un-stunned.)

But this one seems considerably better.

"
raics wrote:
"
Vipermagi wrote:
Having played a fair share of Stunrauder, I can say with fair certainty there's no "stun breaking" - what he's more likely to be seeing is his puny Damage rolling too low to reach the minimum Stun Chance threshold, thus dropping him from 20% to 0% Stun Chance.


Right, I also noticed that, you need to have at least 1% stun chance to go over the threshold so if the damage is extremely puny it won't work. The thing about level 1 flame totems was a hyperbole, they would die instantly anyway.

Also note that 20% chance to stun is not 100% chance to stun. It means you'll stun on average 1 in 5 times.
With 350ms stun duration that means you'd need to be hitting every 70ms (ie: 14 hits per second) to even have a decent chance at stun-locking them.
Face it, all of your suggestions are worse than this idea:
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/657756
Last edited by dudiobugtron on May 17, 2016, 10:22:57 PM
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dudiobugtron wrote:
"
raics wrote:
Right, I also noticed that, you need to have at least 1% stun chance to go over the threshold so if the damage is extremely puny it won't work. The thing about level 1 flame totems was a hyperbole, they would die instantly anyway.

Also note that 20% chance to stun is not 100% chance to stun. It means you'll stun on average 1 in 5 times.
With 350ms stun duration that means you'd need to be hitting every 70ms (ie: 14 hits per second) to even have a decent chance at stun-locking them.


I've also tested what happens when you combine WM and Worthy Foe. For the hell of it, I linked LMP, GMP and Chain to level 1 Flame totem which gave it 0-1 tooltip damage and went out in search of Burning Menace in merciless which has capped fire res, which means I was doing zero damage to it. And it's getting stunned just fine.

Many skill combos can easily pull off more than 14 hits per second, you could also play in a party or invest a little bit in stun duration. If we compare this to a regular permastunner, the amount of investment is ridiculously low and it doesn't pigeonhole you into one type of setup as most stunners are fairly similar, it's much more flexible.

One more thing I've noticed is when your totems (and probably other players) taunt the enemy you already taunted they don't overwrite the Worthy Foe debuff so it's even easier. Also, base taunt duration seems to be 4s, didn't see that piece of info anywhere.

I'd probably suggest replacing the mod with something else or at least halving the amount to 10%, but this ain't no feedback and suggestions. Well, at least we know it's not a bug.
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Last edited by raics on May 18, 2016, 6:20:11 AM
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Mark_GGG wrote:

"
sherkhan wrote:
He has emailed Mark about this directly, with no adequate response.
For the record, I have received no such email (and for future reference, forum PMs are a better way to contact me privately).


My bad. Seems that I was misinformed.

Thanks for the other clarifications.
.
Last edited by sherkhan on May 20, 2016, 1:34:30 AM

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