[Balance] Kinetic Blast Pierce-Explode Discrepancy
|
Recently a friend of mine, who is relatively new to the game, wanted to play a Wander build. He asked me to help him with the build. We ended-up with a Deadeye Critical Hit Wander, with eventually 100% pierce chance. It became even more ridiculous than I anticipated. Throwing out two attacks will clear about two and a half screens of monsters, even in high Tier maps. This works because of shotgunning+Pierce combo. Each enemy hit will have Kinetic Blast Explode around it, Causing all AoE's overlap, dealing excessive amounts of damage covering literally whole screens.
Most spell skills (Fireball/Arctic Breath) that have an area of effect explosion on hit, which is capable of shotgunning, are programmed in such a way that if they pierce, chain or fork, they won't explode. This was done because of balance reasons. However, for some reason these rules do not apply to attacks, leading to some serious balance issues. Just my 2 cents. Last bumped on May 6, 2016, 2:55:43 PM
This thread has been automatically archived. Replies are disabled.
|
|
|
KB clears fast because of the AoE explosion on herald of ice, while the 'shotgun' effect the explosions on KB is possible, it isn't that likely due to the fact it must all basically bounce off one wall.
You can get around this kinda by going pierce and using frost wall or frost wall+spell totem, but by doing that you are basically at the mercy of the wall to hopefully not trap you in, this means you need a quartz flask in order to be as safe as possible. Lets also continue and say that wanders are basically a pure DPS sort of class, you will literally die to basically any real threat if you get hit and if you actually scale your damage not only do you need vaal pact, you need the reflect ring as well. As for the discrepancy of spells vs attacks, its pretty much always been this way, something you need to keep in mind is spells require no accuracy, so that can play a large part in the differences, if spells were just a better version or the same as attacks, but required no accuracy, what would the point of going attacks be? https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285
FeelsBadMan Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF. |
|
|
Lightning arrow is the same way. It's a big balance issue for both skills and the reason they're the most popular skills for their respective weapon types.
It's even worse when you throw in frost wall with echo, then you shotgun bosses. Last edited by DichotomousThree#0868 on May 6, 2016, 10:11:02 AM
|
|
" Well for wanders there isn't really any other good options to use. Power siphon is just weak, who cares about the power charge generation when you have curse on hit with hoi. So KB is used because its the only good wander skill. As for LA, its because they nerfed split arrow. So I'd rather them not utterly destroy the only good wand skill, because the build does have a pretty huge weakness. https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285
FeelsBadMan Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF. |
|
|
Shotgunning was once removed from the game a long time ago because it was hard to balance and it was overpowerd with all the scaling in comparison to other skills which can't shotgun due to skill mechanics.
With Perandus GGG also implemented a shotgunning scenario for monsters (Perandus mobs which cast those lightning balls constantly are shotgunning the player) - without any spell block/spell dodge you die almost instantly in maps against that and even in 1-2 seconds in dried lake with a high level character if you arn't carefull and avoid them. Kinetic Blast with Frost Walls or against monster packs also shotguns through overlapping AoE Explosions end obliterate the whole screen and beyond in a single GMP/LMP Attack. Why don't GGG removes Shotgunning completely once and for all? Overlapping AoE Attacks from the same source can still shotgun which lead to an imbalance in damage output. While fixing the shotgunning, GGG has to rebalance/rework skills which depend on this mechanic to not basically remove them from the game aka they did with Freezing Pulse back than; a skill which was designed around shotgunning. Skills that needed to be looked at would be: Kinetic Blast, Molten Strike, Magma Orb, Explosive Arrow, Lightning Arrow, Ice Shot and Blast Rain. |
|
" All abilities can cause shotgunning because of herald of ice basically though, so to say that those are the only ones left is actually wrong. Also who uses any of the old shotgunning spells, freeze pulse, incinerate, ect anymore? Also some spells still shotgun to this day, they just don't if they chain\pierce or fork, like arctic blast or magma orb. The shotgunning of spells mainly needed to be balanced from monsters, not plays and for the most part that is the true. https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285 FeelsBadMan Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF. Last edited by goetzjam#3084 on May 6, 2016, 10:38:58 AM
|
|
|
Even without HoI he destroys screens. He has Vaal Pact and he rarely dies (if ever) to reflect mobs. I do agree that wands need some proper skills, but this is just ridiculous. When we play in a three man group (Earthquaker/Trapper/Wander). Nobody touches a mob ever, except for the Wander. He actually kills so far away that items that drop aren't allocated. The build isn't that vulnerable either, he never seems to die. That only happens when we aren't paying attention and the map has reflect.
" Base critical strike chance. These spells have a really low crit chance compared to what decent wand can achieve. |
|
" If you kill before the mobs get to you, of course you don't have a problem with getting hit. Its actually kinda the point of the deadeye class, you have to keep in mind the class is actually insane when it comes to a wander. However as you've said he can and does die to reflect, which means you need to be absolutely careful of how you approach the mobs in the map, especially if you ever play with anyone that provides damage auras you aren't used to using, trust me when I say he will die to reflect every single time if he doesnt use the reflect ring in an "actual" party. EQ suffers from the melee issue of needing to get into range before attacking, its obvious that an EQ player isn't going to always be ahead. As for trapper is actually similar, you can throw it in the general direction, but deadeye is designed to kill stuff offscreen. As for the base critical chance, that is somewhat true, but accuracy is still a factor that attack based builds need to account for, wands by design though are suppose to have higher critical chance, because the DPS of a non mirror level wand is naturally low. You can have a 200 dps wand thats somewhat comparable to a 400dps axe in terms of clearspeed, thats just how its designed. https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285
FeelsBadMan Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF. |
|
" There is no way to improve the balance of wanders when one skill is so blatantly overpowered compared to the rest. If they buff the other skills up to the level of KB, it will all be ridiculous and wanders all become the fotm. Wanders don't have to be weak defensively. My KB trickster in cheap hybrid gear has 3.8hp+3.2k es, 3.5k armor and 4k evasion. He's still more powerful offensively than most characters I've played. The only thing I don't like is how kludgy frost wall can be against bosses. |
|
" Trickster KB? Wut As for wand skills, there is literally just 2 of them, KB and PS, PS again isn't that great because its main purpose was charge generation. You can use other skills like frenzy, barrage or ele hit, but those aren't exclusive to wands. As for FOTM, who the fuck cares, wanders in general arent that popular, so your suggesting making KB worst because its "good" because PS is shit because they've introduced mechanics that makes its primary purpose pointless. As for your wander, i bet it does substantially less damage then the deadeye version, which as he is describing is an issue because in a 3 man party it can clear the whole screen. I'll give you a hit bow builds can do the same fucking thing, without using just 1 skill and without specifically selecting deadeye. https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285
FeelsBadMan Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF. |
|
