A thread for stupid things to say which sound really smart

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

Spoiler

The reason I brought up the "the law of gravity is nonsense, if I think I float and you think I float, then it happens" and "reality only exists in the mind" was because they were from 1984 which is a book in some ways dedicated to the idea that history and the past are related but most certainly not the same thing. I felt there was a certain double barreled communication to the Obama quote that fitted the bill. Im guessing youre a far more widely read man than myself so Im sure youve consumed both the book and the film at some point and probably know a lot more about it than me tbh.

When they talk about reality existing in the mind in that book, its obviously a slightly different angle to a standard philosophical position in that what theyre sort of saying is that the only reality that matters in the context they are talking about is that which is in the mind and to truly shape that you must be able to fully believe in stupid things like that statement itself, to know things are right which are not. I guess a little more poetic political psychology than philosophy or science. Though theres elements to the ideas explored in the novel which kind of touch on and are supported by everything youre saying.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

The reason I brought up the "the law of gravity is nonsense, if I think I float and you think I float, then it happens" and "reality only exists in the mind" was because they were from 1984 which is a book in some ways dedicated to the idea that history and the past are related but most certainly not the same thing. I felt there was a certain double barreled communication to the Obama quote that fitted the bill. Im guessing youre a far more widely read man than myself so Im sure youve consumed both the book and the film at some point and probably know a lot more about it than me tbh.

When they talk about reality existing in the mind in that book, its obviously a slightly different angle to a standard philosophical position in that what theyre sort of saying is that the only reality that matters in the context they are talking about is that which is in the mind and to truly shape that you must be able to fully believe in stupid things like that statement itself, to know things are right which are not. I guess a little more poetic political psychology than philosophy or science. Though theres elements to the ideas explored in the novel which kind of touch on and are supported by everything youre saying.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Before bl00dangel edited their post, they had a question along the lines of "what, so people don't know how to swim now?" (Paraphrasing.) And although I haven't changed my mind on a core, conceptual level, I think my semantics may be off; the phrase "believe how to swim" is lame as fuck.

Still, the reason it's lame is mostly due to the nature of the English (and perhaps other) languages, which was in turn heavily impacted by Christianity. As part of their "meek shall inherit" schtick, the church asked folks to have blind faith, claiming that to believe something when you have good evidence is nothing special, but to believe with poor evidence is sacred. This has worked its way into our language to such an extent that "believe" and "faith" are now associated with the opposites of their literal meanings: skepticism and doubt, the natural and proper reactions to dubious evidence.

Kinda fucked up, ain't it?

So now, rebelling against this Bizarro World understanding of faith, you've got legions of folks trying to believe they can live without faith, which is really just... denial, really. Everyone routinely believes things they're not 100% sure of, so belief and doubt are still real issues, no matter how repressed.

Really, for mental health if nothing else, secular culture could benefit from a movement which says it's okay to believe, but that faith is best attributed not to that which is the least, but to that which is the most solid. We should, perhaps even need, to stop yielding faith to the cultists, reclaim the corrupted concept, and rebrand it with the dignity and reverence it deserves.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Really, for mental health if nothing else, secular culture could benefit from a movement which says it's okay to believe, but that faith is best attributed not to that which is the least, but to that which is the most solid. We should, perhaps even need, to stop yielding faith to the cultists, reclaim the corrupted concept, and rebrand it with the dignity and reverence it deserves.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

I'd be kinda surprised if anyone other than me and Nero have studied epistemology at all prior to this thread. And I'm no philosophy major.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Oh hey, doing a little research into epistemology is eye-opening. As a former Ayn Rand weirdo I was familiar with her views on the topic but hadn't really delved into anything else.