Lab: traps are fascist
" Nah, your wording is fine. It's probably me that has trouble interpreting your post correctly, since I'm not a native speaker (not from Armourica). I just thought that because you mentioned your choices on the tree should matter (and because of your other topic), that you don't like the (probable) design decision to limit defensive capabilities when it comes to traps -- to make them a challenge for most builds possible. I think this is noble goal and percentage based damage + DOTs are valid tools to do it. "but i actually agree on the equalization of traps regarding all builds possible" - Yes, it appears we agree on that one :) I'm just having trouble understanding why you want your defenses to matter within that context. It seems to me it would be easier to get near equilibrium when we'd just ignore defenses, also from a balance point of view (how much %damage is enough?). |
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" Indeed. (I'm not saying it can't be done, in case that is somehow implied.) |
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" touché " Yep, was to be expected. Not going to point out the glaringly obvious flaws in the analogy Pots vs VD/elixir. " I did not say you didn't. Maybe you are a perfect human being that never makes mistakes so the difference doesn't matter to you. I'm not. The difference is annoying at best. " If you build specifically for the lab then of course you go all out movement speed. At some point, with enough specialization it doesn't matter if you go life or ES, it only matters where you start and where your offensive perks are on the tree. However, I'm not talking about specialized characters here. You are off-topic. " As hard as introducing puzzles and traps that don't care about your total hp pool. " Because the lab is different. " Last edited by dyneol#3245 on May 3, 2016, 3:47:20 PM
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" You kinda don't agree on the fundamental notion. Like, at all. The opening post states that traps should be equally difficult for all characters, for which they have to ignore your passive tree by definition (because if something helps on the passive tree, they are not equally difficult any longer). The only thing you see is that this is about traps, and you don't like traps. And yes, I am completely fine about the fact that all my passive and item investments (CI, 10k ES, all curse nodes, Enfeeble, Temp Chains) are completely negated by traps. Edit: Corrected a typo. Remove Horticrafting station storage limit. Last edited by Char1983#2680 on May 3, 2016, 3:52:50 PM
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" I guess its because of my experience in tabletop RPG games and their equivalent in RPG video games, where enviromental effects and especially traps had your rolling for a "save" for example this trap required fortidude 20 to resist the effect, or that trap required 30 reflex to half the aoe damage, or 15will save to resist mind controlling etc. You see every class had a strong point and different effects were easier to resist with different classes, making it fair but in the same time different for all, so the tanky warrior or the virile barbarian would resist the ability damage from a poison trap, while the agile rogue would completely avoid the damage of a fireball-like trap, and the glass cannon/GOD wizard would probably die from both but would resist domination. You see where im going? Those traps didnt negate their defences, they all had a chance to resist dmg/effects based on their saves, which for some were good and others bad. They were just different rolls for different kind of traps, with each class having an advantage and a disadvantage. Im not saying that this system is what PoE traps need but they could be inspired from a more fair and just mechanic.
Offtopic
@Char1983 Why you even bothered on making such a comment? Whats next? Will you tell me what i like to drink or which is my favourite metal band? Dont tell me what i said or implied if you cannot comprehend yourself what i did in the first place. Read my posts in this thread here. The traps can be equally fair to all builds without having to negate every single point in defensive mechanics you spent on the tree like you ignoranly stated. See above for a simple yet not perfect example. Another simple example is to put percentage + flat damage values in every single trap. If you had the decency to actually read and comprehend points made you wouldnt have to post that turd of a comment. Seriously what was the purpose of it? To just disagree for the sake of disagreeing? It does not offer shit on the OP, does not make a new point and only quotes (part of) my post for what? Yes i stood a bit in the foundamental and counterinuitive change lab's traps brought into the game from an RPG point of view, but that doesnt mean i cant agree on the basic notion. Those irrelevant and blatantly audacious comments drive me crazy, seriously some times i think that the whole purpose of comments like those is to induce rage and infuriate others.
P.S. Dyneol sorry for the change of tone and the possible derail that might follow. Inundated with cockroaches, I am
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1609216 - labyrinth rework ideas/suggestions |
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" The difference between regular POE and the lab is that you can tailor your build to the defenses you use. Low life builds don't suffer for lacking life flasks in regular fights like they do against traps, since you're able to leech back ES against monsters. The lab doesn't only make low life builds take significantly more damage than other builds since it factors in their reserved life. It also completely negates the mechanics they use to survive. The lab hits certain builds much, much harder than others. It's not remotely analogous to the difference in defenses while playing outside the lab. Going through the lab as a life based character and dealing with traps has been annoying, but not a big deal. Going through the lab with a character that has any significant amount of ES has been terrible and unfun. Unless your build has already progressed to a god-like state, you have to play the game so ridiculously cautiously that you're no longer doing something resembling playing POE. One mistake, even one caused by POE's interface and movement mechanics being terribly suited for trap gauntlets, can easily kill you. A .5 second lag spike at a bad time no longer means you pop a life flask. It now means you either log out instantly or die. I'd like to see something done to provide more balance between the different defenses. The good news is that GGG has already said they're going to do something. We just have to wait and see exactly what that is and hope it's good enough to make lab runs more fun with builds using ES. |
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Dunno. I've done lab with a CI character and i don't even feel like a hero. Hybrid chars can just disable a couple of auras and it's enough easy.
Life builds get an advantage but it really isn't impossible or so hard to make it impossible to run. For an Emperor to be just, an Emperor must be patient.
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" Yes I get it now. There should be traps that mess up life builds, traps that mess with ES, and so fourth. Even movement speed could be made an inconvenience here and there using some kind of bleed effect that scales with your speed. It could work and it could even be interesting, but I think this would be quite an undertaking to get it right. There are just so many variables where D&D only had those 3 different saving throws. You can also hotswap your gear to some extend, depending on the trap. To me this sounds too complicated and is probably not worth the effort. Also D&D had traps (always depending on the setting, of course) that could just not be overcome if you don't have the right build. Analogous to that, in PoE this could mean that some people might encounter a build specific blocker and since there is no disable traps skill it would force that player to wait for another lab layout. " Yea, well, I think you are a bit harsh here. He just seems equally confused as I was. Last edited by dyneol#3245 on May 3, 2016, 5:53:32 PM
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" Not sure why people keep saying it's not impossible. Nobody said it's impossible. |
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" Ok, so what's really the problem? There are a lot of builds tailored towards different kind of challenges. Some builds can easily do atziri, but be slow when it comes to clearspeed or soffer from more map mods, others can have the opposite issue. So some builds can farm enchantments easily, others are a little bit more troublesome. If this is the situation the title should be "poe is fascist" and not "traps are fascist". For an Emperor to be just, an Emperor must be patient.
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