[Feedback] RNG should leave (29.04.2016 UPDATE)
"I take it you mean "unique item drop RNG" primarily. And yeah, if that's what players are trying to do - make builds centered on unique items - then yes, actually having them feels great. Obviously, if you don't have the uniques, you probably don't have a functioning version of the build you're trying to use. However, it also means that gear progression for you, for any slots which have uniques, stops; outside of better-rolled versions of the same uniques, you've already achieved best-in-slot. Achieving this quickly and easily is anathema to the PoE theme of slow yet continuous gear progression. So, really, by having unique items at all, GGG has put themselves in a catch-22. They can make unique items boring, but players would despise that, so they need to make them almost absurdly more interesting than affix-based items. As long as they're interesting enough to have endgame viable builds, GGG either makes them scarce drops, making said builds unplayable unless you MF like a motherfucker with a rare-item-viable build first, OR you provide them to players easily and gear progression stops for some if not all slots. In this manner, unique items are essentially incompatible with slow, continuous, single-path progression. (A lot of games with unique items, or CCGs whose cards tend to behave similarly, allow for easy "respec" so players can make one build with a collection of "common" unique-style items, then another build with "rares," then even more with "ultra-rares," etc, but this requires that players be able to change from one build to another on the fly.) Note that RNG doesn't really have anything to do with this. Indeed, it is the relative nonrandomness of the mods on unique items, and the exclusivity of those mods to unique items, causing the issues. A deterministic yet equally, ridiculously time-consuming means of unique item acquisition would have the same effect. I feel perhaps GGG's greatest design blunder was continuing the ARPG tradition of putting all the cool, gamechanging, build-defining shit on unique items. Yes, powerful mods require balances to keep them in check, but there are other ways - for example, only allowing a particularly gamechanging affix to spawn on low-level bases, such that the inherent stats of better bases are off-limits. But that didn't happen. Instead all the really cool shit is on uniques, so players desperately want to play with the cool shit, and we find PoE's core paradigm of grindy progression legitimately challenged by the pile of D3 Loot 2.0 which is Cadiro Perandus. That's what happens when you mix oil and water. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB on Apr 26, 2016, 12:33:46 AM
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" I wasn't necessarily talking about Unique Drops. In all honesty, I don't quite care about unique drops as this is a case where the trade system does seem to somewhat be doing its job, even though the system in place is far from perfect (like being alt tabbed searching for it for long periods of time). In this sense, I'd be talking more along the lines of a boss is guaranteed a currency drop or unique drop pool of a particular tier (mirrors always excluded) as I've only found 2 exalted orbs this entire league and this entire trading system is detracting from the core gameplay for me. Maybe even introducing a new kind of currency system a la WoW drops that can be traded for a type of currency (again excluding mirrors) when you have a certain amount. So that, whenever you kill an upper tier boss, you're at least winding up with something rather than the many many times you end up with nothing. A system of steady progress. Perandus offered this is some way not only with uniques and their trade but also that Cadiro also sometimes offered rare items (like mortal hope) and currency deals (like 10 fusing). What I do care about, though, is the inherent RNG related to Linking, Socketing, and Exalted Orb Crafting. It discourages me greatly to read that people who have been playing league after league since beta have only just created a 6 linked armor using many times over what Vorici offers, and the constant failings at trying to get socket colors correct. That's crazy amounts of RNG. It'd be one thing if every socket color combination could be crafted for reasonable chromatic orb prices, or if the missing affixes were also added to the crafting system like Chaos Resistance and elemental type/spell damage on necklaces. All at reasonable amounts (because remember, I'm planning on playing more than 1 character and don't want to be bankrupted on 1). It could even be balanced at being at most 2 tiers below what can be exalted, so that RNG rares are still king, but at least less of a disparity than there is now. Also, as has been stated, some sort of RNG entropy system would be great so that there are no perpetual losers in the RNG. Edit: To clarify, adding 4, 5, 6 sockets of X color, slight improvements to offered stats from master crafting so they're only 2 tiers down, not 4-5, and the inclusion of these "missing affixes" like Chaos resistance would satisfy in this case. Last edited by Tsokushin on Apr 26, 2016, 1:09:08 AM
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Oh. Fusing RNG is a different story. It's optional. Literally. You can simply choose not to deal with Fusing RNG, ever, if that is your choice in the matter. Just level Vorici and use him. Same with Jewelers, a little different with Chromes. If you opted into socket RNG and you had a run of bad luck, well, there are winners and there are losers as far as that decision goes, and you're the latter.
Exalted RNG is more deterministic than you probably think. Early crafting is mostly about lining up three good prefixes while still having open suffixes; from there, you can apply Prefixes Cannot be Changed and Scour to wipe all the suffixes and start over, so you're pretty much in Eternal Orb mode. My only complain there is, for fuck's sake, why is the Prefixes Cannot be Changed mod priced in Exalts? Make it 2 Divine Orbs (which drop less often than Exalts anyway), and people would actually value that currency with respect. There's also Eleron's Multiple Crafted Mods. It'll never make a BiS or anything, but there's basically no RNG involved. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB on Apr 26, 2016, 1:26:20 AM
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All I know is many of you have not made a sacrifice to Kuduku, Destroyer Of Good Rolls in quite awhile, if ever.
"Dude he fucking said hotdog racist.
Like I can't even make this shit up." - gj 1.0.0 Forum Posters now have 50% less Critical Thinking skill per Patch |
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" I'm aware it's far more deterministic than using chaos orbs, but the currency required is one that drops very very rarely and exalted orbing can still be a miss in that it's rolling multiple affixes and of multiple tiers. Keep in mind I'm still new, I didn't make a faceroll ease build, and I don't have years of currency/legacy items in stock. Exalted Orb crafting is out of the question when I'm struggling just trying to get a hold of 1 exalted orb. Edit: Clarification. Last edited by Tsokushin on Apr 26, 2016, 1:41:32 AM
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" Have you ever played backgammon, poker, or scrabble? "Dude he fucking said hotdog racist.
Like I can't even make this shit up." - gj 1.0.0 Forum Posters now have 50% less Critical Thinking skill per Patch |
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" This game is about trading - if you do not like it, you either have to accept the fact you'll never have top'kekz'godly'gear, all tier-1 mods, 420 items, (Also see - self found) or you might as well just leave now. You can say it is terrible and we'll all idiots, great, but we'll playing this game and we like it. We done? RNG based system has only one problem, as stated before - it WILL screw up some people. Using the RNG crafting, while giving the players something for their spend currency is enough. It might be just a note, how many given currency you spend, and maybe some information that you have chance to get your desired craft increased by a slight percent. Some people will still be screwed, but far less than RNG can screw you right now. I'd say that would simply be forming the curve correctly, instead of pure RNG. And by forming it, I mean a slight decrease to roll, for example, 6L in general, but smoothing the experience with accumulating entropy. The only problem are chromatics, but honestly, Vorici already made them easy as heck. Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. https://joeduncan123.imgur.com https://joeduncan1234.imgur.com Last edited by Perq on Apr 26, 2016, 4:24:41 AM
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" Simply put, if the game is all about trading, why is it exceedingly difficult? If the work was put into making trading a viable endgame, why is it that 90% of the trade seems to be on a 3rd party website? If there were actual built in systems that helped trade move along, then I'd agree with you. As it stands, I usually have to peruse some 3rd party site to actually either browse for an item or exchange or try to sell something. It's this simple fact that there's no base encoding for trade that leads me to acknowledge that trading so far has either not been truly thought out or it was just an idea that was never expanded upon in any meaningful way. Not to mention all the bot spam that's always in Trade chat. At the very least, you could implement some type of Warframe wherein they can only post something once every 90 seconds, that'd make it heaps easier to find something instead of seeing the same 4 line message spanning 10 times in 40 seconds. As for the RNG system, I'm not so concerned with drops themselves, but rather the exceeding layers of RNG on items, along with affixes only being gated behind RNG. You say I'll never get T1 and all that, that may be very well true. I'm fine with top of the line gear in terms of top tier affixes being only through RNG. But, the exceeding levels of RNG behind this is insane. Most of this crafting is done through Exalted Orbs that most people see only 2-3 of at most during a league not to mention that it's also required for master crafting. There's RNG to get this item, in addition to utilizing it to better your odds at the next stage of RNG, then the RNG to actually roll the affix. You say trade for them and then I have to point you back to the earlier parts of this post discussing most things wrong with trading right now. And even when it comes to master crafting, some things are simply not attainable, such as Chaos resistance on items and spell damage on Necklaces. Inexorably, the best solution in terms of this would just be to introduce some sort of entropy where big winners win big but losers do not remain losers perpetually. In any case, with the problem with Chromatic Orbs and Vorici, I fail to see how introducing the 4, 5, 6 of a color socket crafting would be a problem. And, just as a general question, because I do not see much on this topic, how would improving RNG for people as a whole negatively affect you? You'd still have your gear, your builds, and the bosses to take down. | |
"As I alluded to in my post on unique items, the main problem would be: I'd have my gear. I mean, obviously I want some gear, enough to make my build work, but getting best-in-slot gear is, in my eyes, winning. If I get every slot, there is nothing left to do, further play on the character is a waste of time, reroll. It is important to me to always have hope for a significant upgrade, and flooding me with goodies would diminish or destroy that hope by shrinking the potential upgrade space. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB on Apr 26, 2016, 10:42:55 AM
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Why not just asking for everyone to get the same crap if you believe that RNG should leave ?
Like they can give us 1c for every hour we play and an exalt every two days (because they don`t drop too often and some people find more than others ). And a mirror every two months because i`ve never found one but there are people who have found at least 3 or 4. Or what is the reason to pick fusings and use them to link sockets ? They can give us a 6L every two weeks and this way no one will be luckier than the rest. And we should be able to choose the mods we like because if we use currency then some will be luckier than others. I am not a rich guy, i wasted a lot of fusings too, but i am smart enough to realize that without RNG, this game is crap. The only thing that keeps many people playing is that some objectives are hard to achieve. This league is already easy as ..., the last thing we need is even less RNG. |
