Juggernaut really is terribly weak relative to others.. but here's an easy, reasonable fix

Yea stack armor like crazy and your DPS / clear speed must be utterly shit compared to the rest. As mentioned, lightning coil would blow your silly build in terms of point investment alone.

Again, every class can feel 'OP' on its own but IN COMPARISON to tank or mix tank/DPS subclasses and cost per point, Juggy is mediocre at best.

"

Khargan wrote:

I feel they should just change Unstoppable to "You cannot be slowed". That's really thematic (I'M THE JUGGERNAUT, BITCH!) and hardly OP, at least in comparison to some of the insane stuff that other subclasses get.

Exactly... remove the base speed part, and it will make this class much more balanced vs. the others.

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Dark_Chicken wrote:

The stats don't lie.

What stats?

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Dark_Chicken wrote:

Yea stack armor like crazy and your DPS / clear speed must be utterly shit compared to the rest. As mentioned, lightning coil would blow your silly build in terms of point investment alone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9SoCKqUzlg


37k armour only from chest piece. How big was his point investment in armour on tree? 4 (four) points to take Soul of Steel. Rest armour from tree what he take, taking basically every Marauder because its efficient life+armour or just best way to leave marauder area.
Most of case is better than coil.

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schlachtergeselle wrote:

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Lol ? Do you not understand what double armour is ? Juggernaut isnt weak at all. If anything its one of the most broken Ascendancy Classes.

Have a 2500+ armour chest piece ? Oh, heres free god mode against physical hits, literally. You can hit 95% physical mitigation cap soo fucking easy and just throw the rest in damage.

You clearly dont know how to do math if you think double armour gives you fucking 5% physical mitigation rofl.

too bad lightning coil still blows it out of the water.

No.

Also, why are you even comparing Lightning Coil in this case ? You have to change ALL of your gear in order to compensate for it, for Juggernaught you literally just through on the chest and get more mitigation.

Are you high ?

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pijanapanda wrote:

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Dark_Chicken wrote:

The stats don't lie.

What stats?

"

Dark_Chicken wrote:

Yea stack armor like crazy and your DPS / clear speed must be utterly shit compared to the rest. As mentioned, lightning coil would blow your silly build in terms of point investment alone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9SoCKqUzlg


37k armour only from chest piece. How big was his point investment in armour on tree? 4 (four) points to take Soul of Steel. Rest armour from tree what he take, taking basically every Marauder because its efficient life+armour or just best way to leave marauder area.
Most of case is better than coil.

People dont understand math apparently LOL.

Never laughed soo hard on the forums before, "it gives about 5% or less physical mitigation" ROFL.

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

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schlachtergeselle wrote:

"

Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Lol ? Do you not understand what double armour is ? Juggernaut isnt weak at all. If anything its one of the most broken Ascendancy Classes.

Have a 2500+ armour chest piece ? Oh, heres free god mode against physical hits, literally. You can hit 95% physical mitigation cap soo fucking easy and just throw the rest in damage.

You clearly dont know how to do math if you think double armour gives you fucking 5% physical mitigation rofl.

too bad lightning coil still blows it out of the water.

No.

Also, why are you even comparing Lightning Coil in this case ? You have to change ALL of your gear in order to compensate for it, for Juggernaught you literally just through on the chest and get more mitigation.

Are you high ?

do you even know how armor and damage conversion works? damage conversion works before any mitigation. so lightning coil reduces any actual physical hit by 30% and converts this damage to lightning. the remaining damage in turn is reduced by armor. so armor gets more effectiveness, it needs only to reduce 70% of the initial hit. thats why. lightning coil is cheap, a lot cheaper than your op chest. you get it faster, and its value only diminishes if you get -max resists. your chest, however loses value with every additional armor point you get from other gear. so the better the rest of your gear, the better lightning coil gets. this armor chest might be better, but the cost is actually huge, you can expect multiple exalts and two ascendancy points.

and you want effective armor?

http://poe.trade/search/makitetoromase

now focus on getting block, you will easily reach 200% increased defences from shields. and you don't waste your precious ascendancy points, nope, instead you can even pick gladiator for that sweet 100 spell block conversion and! you can combine it with lightning coil. so where is your armor god special?

so why the fuck do you think would i compare them?

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Dark_Chicken wrote:

Yea stack armor like crazy and your DPS / clear speed must be utterly shit compared to the rest. As mentioned, lightning coil would blow your silly build in terms of point investment alone.

Again, every class can feel 'OP' on its own but IN COMPARISON to tank or mix tank/DPS subclasses and cost per point, Juggy is mediocre at best.

"

Khargan wrote:

I feel they should just change Unstoppable to "You cannot be slowed". That's really thematic (I'M THE JUGGERNAUT, BITCH!) and hardly OP, at least in comparison to some of the insane stuff that other subclasses get.

Exactly... remove the base speed part, and it will make this class much more balanced vs. the others.

You are just complaining for the sake of complaining. Have you looked into Juggernaut or even used one before?

Your character is almost never above base speed, so why does "cannot be slowed below base speed" matter to you?

"

schlachtergeselle wrote:

do you even know how armor and damage conversion works? damage conversion works before any mitigation. so lightning coil reduces any actual physical hit by 30% and converts this damage to lightning. the remaining damage in turn is reduced by armor. so armor gets more effectiveness, it needs only to reduce 70% of the initial hit. thats why. lightning coil is cheap, a lot cheaper than your op chest. you get it faster, and its value only diminishes if you get -max resists. your chest, however loses value with every additional armor point you get from other gear. so the better the rest of your gear, the better lightning coil gets. this armor chest might be better, but the cost is actually huge, you can expect multiple exalts and two ascendancy points.

and you want effective armor?

http://poe.trade/search/makitetoromase

now focus on getting block, you will easily reach 200% increased defences from shields. and you don't waste your precious ascendancy points, nope, instead you can even pick gladiator for that sweet 100 spell block conversion and! you can combine it with lightning coil. so where is your armor god special?

so why the fuck do you think would i compare them?

Lmao you dont know what youre talking about and its hilarious.

Also, youre completely disregarding that you can get a 6L chest easier AND cheaper than a Lightning Coil. It takes more investment to use a lightning coil in both currency and gearing in general to use it and it isnt as effective as having capped physical mitigation.

Do you really not understand that armour reduces damage the same way as lightning coil, lightning coil just does it via resistances which are capped at 75% (unless using or speccing into additional lightning resistance or purity of lightning).

Math hard? 75% is now > 95 ? LOL

TL;DR - Lightning Coil even with mediocre armour doesnt compare, you have to have a fuckton of armour investment to get equal mitigation from the juggernaut node, and you cant get that with lightning coil. Lightning coil is more expensive to link and to use in general as lightning coil rare cost significantly more. Rare chest + this node blows the fuck out of lightning coil.

P.s - Youre also completely disregarding you get shocked on hit with lightning coil. Thats extra damage that you arent even accounting for kek.

Edit- Back before Ascendacy was a 2k+ armour chest out done but a lightning coil ? yes. Is it with the juggernaut node ? No.

Oh and lets not forget map mods like elemental weakness and minus max which makes that lightning coil much worse. lol

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

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schlachtergeselle wrote:

do you even know how armor and damage conversion works? damage conversion works before any mitigation. so lightning coil reduces any actual physical hit by 30% and converts this damage to lightning. the remaining damage in turn is reduced by armor. so armor gets more effectiveness, it needs only to reduce 70% of the initial hit. thats why.

Do you really not understand that armour reduces damage the same way as lightning coil, lightning coil just does it via resistances which are capped at 75% (unless using or speccing into additional lightning resistance or purity of lightning).

schlachtergeselle is correct on this point, and you are wrong. They don't work the same way. Armour mititgation as a % reduces based on how damaging the hit is. The tooltip reduction is just an estimate.

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dudiobugtron wrote:

schlachtergeselle is correct on this point, and you are wrong. They don't work the same way. Armour mititgation as a % reduces based on how damaging the hit is. The tooltip reduction is just an estimate.

It kind of depends on what values we are talking about. High end physical damage is about 5000 pure physical. When you get to 100k+ armor values, it beats out Lightning Coil easily after including Endurance Charges and Soul of Steel.

Do remember that Lightning Coil does not prevent damage, it converts it to Lightning damage.

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Starxsword wrote:

It kind of depends on what values we are talking about.

Yes, my point is that armour depends on what values you are talking about, whereas damage conversion doesn't. Glad we agree.