{3.0} Necronomicon / Raise Spectre Monster Info...[The Unofficial Minion Wiki]

Some nice testing Dextera, and thank you for posting the items and gems you used for them.

In your opinion, which top three spectres would you rate as best and why? I'm currently playing Necro Aegis with Victario's Charity (Check my character Cynophobia) and i feel like things slowed down a bit at T10+ maps. I'd like to improve my damage/clear speed.
My Supporter Pack list compensates for my small penis.
Rapid decay is better for knitteds instead of slower project?
IGN: Ariannahh
Alf's True summoner: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1322360/page/1
Alf's Only SRS: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1454368
Hideout: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1428672
"
Completed 4 Challengespesadel0 wrote:
Very nice guide thank you for all the work . JUst whish GGG whould make it so that when we log we dont lose our specters or a "save" option on the gem so that we dont have to loose so much time summoning our specters.

I'd say this is one of the most frustrating things, in terms of mechanics, for summoners. People have wanted a solution to this for a long time. Last year, I posted a few ideas, but to no avail. Like Desecrate summons the corpses of your last 3 spectres and Revive Spectres with Flask Charges. At least they added my passive tree gems idea! So maybe there's hope!




"
Completed 10 Challengeskjksdajk wrote:
Rapid decay is better for knitteds instead of slower project?

No, because it doesn't double-dip. You can't compare numbers without understanding how they are used. More Projectile Damage scales up the initial hit, which boosts the poison, then poison itself is boosted by it. Rapid Decay ONLY boosts the poison, not the initial hit, which is what poison first scales from.

Example: 100 initial hit damage, 10% poison damage x 2 seconds

--------------------
SLOWER PROJECTILES
--------------------
100 * 1.29 (slower projectiles) = 129 boosted initial damage

129 * 0.1 (poison) = 12.9 poison damage

12.9 * 1.29 (slower projectiles) = 16.6 boosted poison damage

129 damage + 16.64 poison * 2 seconds = 162.3 total damage


--------------------
RAPID DECAY
--------------------
100 * 1 (no initial hit multiplier) = 100 initial damage

100 * 0.1 (poison) = 10 poison damage

10 * 1.39 (rapid decay) = 13.9 boosted poison damage

100 damage + 13.9 poison * 1.7 seconds = 123.7 total damage

I am assuming the reduced duration causes a loss in damage, but it may instead deliver the full 20% damage in less time. If this is the case:

100 damage + 13.9 poison * 2 = 127.8 total damage


--------------------
VERDICT
--------------------
120 total damage without anything
162.3 with Slower Projectiles
127.8 with Rapid Decay

42.3 more with SP
7.8 more with RD

The result is clear: they aren't even close. Absolutely any other support that boosts the initial hit would be better than Rapid Decay. You're getting a percentage out of a percentage. Really, you should only ever use RD on a pure, flat damage-over-time like Contagion.
Last edited by Hercanic on Mar 19, 2016, 8:49:31 AM
"
Completed 5 Challengesmattc3303 wrote:
"
Are you sure about chain? From what I remember their projectile attack have 100% pierce, and chain just doesn't work. And why you never mention Controlled Destruction? I think it is stronger than fire pen as long you are using EE + at least one of Elemental weakness/flammability.


I definitely see their projectiles chaining so maybe it might be some chance to pierce or it just seems like it is?

I think Firepen just helps in general vs curse immune maps and rares and high fire res maps. Its not that off in terms of damage. Anything below 0% resist is more damage for your spectre.


Ok, this is not 100% pierce. But chaining is still not really reliable, and definitely not worth it IMO.
"
I'd say this is one of the most frustrating things, in terms of mechanics, for summoners. People have wanted a solution to this for a long time. Last year, I posted a few ideas, but to no avail. Like Desecrate summons the corpses of your last 3 spectres and Revive Spectres with Flask Charges. At least they added my passive tree gems idea! So maybe there's hope!


Nice to you still active Hercanic.

There is a QOL complaint for summoners almost every week on poe.reddit and the forums. GGG is making great strides for QOL so maybe, just maybe they will look into summoners again.

"
Ok, this is not 100% pierce. But chaining is still not really reliable, and definitely not worth it IMO.


MMm, Thanks for your feedback. Definitely something to consider removing since its another less multiplier
Necronomicon: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1617098
Build: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/409940
Summoner Dischord: https://discord.gg/XwWdSUa
Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/zhoukon
Last edited by mattc3303 on Mar 19, 2016, 11:16:37 AM
"
Completed 5 Challengesmattc3303 wrote:
Yes, your right I guess i overlooked it firepen is indeed better on incinerators then ele focus.

Physical projectile dmg only scales the initial hit of the initial projectile, The tags u are looking for should be "projectile", "minion, "general MORE dmg"


Physical projectile damage, Keywords: Projectile, Support. From the wiki. shouldnt it be affecting all the skill an thus be better gem for knitteds?
IGN: Ariannahh
Alf's True summoner: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1322360/page/1
Alf's Only SRS: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1454368
Hideout: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1428672
"
Physical projectile damage, Keywords: Projectile, Support. From the wiki. shouldnt it be affecting all the skill an thus be better gem for knitteds?


The keyword being "Physical". I believe that only affects the initial hit. It is different then general
"projectile" damage
Necronomicon: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1617098
Build: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/409940
Summoner Dischord: https://discord.gg/XwWdSUa
Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/zhoukon
"
Completed 5 Challengesmattc3303 wrote:
"
Physical projectile damage, Keywords: Projectile, Support. From the wiki. shouldnt it be affecting all the skill an thus be better gem for knitteds?


The keyword being "Physical". I believe that only affects the initial hit. It is different then general
"projectile" damage

But if it affects the initial hit, it also affects the damage of the poison that is calculated from initial hit. isnt it?
IGN: Ariannahh
Alf's True summoner: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1322360/page/1
Alf's Only SRS: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1454368
Hideout: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1428672
"
Completed 5 ChallengesHercanic wrote:
"
Completed 4 Challengespesadel0 wrote:
Very nice guide thank you for all the work . JUst whish GGG whould make it so that when we log we dont lose our specters or a "save" option on the gem so that we dont have to loose so much time summoning our specters.

I'd say this is one of the most frustrating things, in terms of mechanics, for summoners. People have wanted a solution to this for a long time. Last year, I posted a few ideas, but to no avail. Like Desecrate summons the corpses of your last 3 spectres and Revive Spectres with Flask Charges. At least they added my passive tree gems idea! So maybe there's hope!




"
Completed 10 Challengeskjksdajk wrote:
Rapid decay is better for knitteds instead of slower project?

No, because it doesn't double-dip. You can't compare numbers without understanding how they are used. More Projectile Damage scales up the initial hit, which boosts the poison, then poison itself is boosted by it. Rapid Decay ONLY boosts the poison, not the initial hit, which is what poison first scales from.

Example: 100 initial hit damage, 10% poison damage x 2 seconds

--------------------
SLOWER PROJECTILES
--------------------
100 * 1.29 (slower projectiles) = 129 boosted initial damage

129 * 0.1 (poison) = 12.9 poison damage

12.9 * 1.29 (slower projectiles) = 16.6 boosted poison damage

129 damage + 16.64 poison * 2 seconds = 162.3 total damage


--------------------
RAPID DECAY
--------------------
100 * 1 (no initial hit multiplier) = 100 initial damage

100 * 0.1 (poison) = 10 poison damage

10 * 1.39 (rapid decay) = 13.9 boosted poison damage

100 damage + 13.9 poison * 1.7 seconds = 123.7 total damage

I am assuming the reduced duration causes a loss in damage, but it may instead deliver the full 20% damage in less time. If this is the case:

100 damage + 13.9 poison * 2 = 127.8 total damage


--------------------
VERDICT
--------------------
120 total damage without anything
162.3 with Slower Projectiles
127.8 with Rapid Decay

42.3 more with SP
7.8 more with RD

The result is clear: they aren't even close. Absolutely any other support that boosts the initial hit would be better than Rapid Decay. You're getting a percentage out of a percentage. Really, you should only ever use RD on a pure, flat damage-over-time like Contagion.


---------------------------------
Physical Projectile Attack Damage
--------------------------------
100 * 1.49 (phys damage) = 149 initial damage

149 * 0.1 (poison) = 14.9 poison damage

No boosted poison

149 damage + 14.9 * 2 seconds = 178.8 total damage

--------------------
VERDICT
--------------------
120 total damage without anything
162.3 with Slower Projectiles
127.8 with Rapid Decay
178.8 with physical proj damage

Physical proj damage seems best option even if it is not boosting poison. Oh, and PPAD does not f*ck ur spectres range neither. (slower does by a lot)
IGN: Ariannahh
Alf's True summoner: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1322360/page/1
Alf's Only SRS: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1454368
Hideout: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1428672
Last edited by kjksdajk on Mar 19, 2016, 3:10:22 PM
Is GMP/Chain working properly with Dead Reckoning + Summon Skeletons?

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