Enchantments are Evenly Weighted. Why?
" https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1610326 Why? As much as I love the Labyrinth, if I had to leverage a criticism, it would be this. It's a pool in the 100s and applied to an item that is subject to becoming obsolete due to upgrades. Applying somewhat higher weight to enchantments for skill gems that are slotted in gear would allow players to have some degree of influence over the system while stilling being subject to RNG. Even if they manipulated the system by stripping down to just one skill gem to maximize their chances wouldn't be that bad if you imposed a cap on the max weight a single gem could acquire. At the moment, the size of the pool makes the odds of you getting an enchantment relevant to potentially the 4-6 active skill gems your build uses is daunting and actively discourages doing the content until you have acquired that one god helmet item that you aren't ever going to upgrade. You could take another approach and allow us to choose a certain type of skill gems. Criteria could be things like color or type: curse, aura, fire damage, etc. Choosing a type adds a significantly greater weight to receiving an enchantment from that type, but not complete. Hence, I choose curse and let's say it gives me 80% more weight to receive a curse and all other skill enchantments a 20% weight. If I win that 1 out of 5, I then have to win a 1 out of like 10 or however many curses there are in game. If I have like one curse I consider optimal for use with my build and like 2-3 others that I could make work, with a system like that, an expectation of doing 5-6 runs to get an an enchantment of actual value would be reasonably obtainable. Last bumped on Mar 11, 2016, 8:06:21 PM
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" I dont think you understand. if it was weighted, theyd tie the most coveted/powerful enchantments with lowest weight. see- talismans, mystery boxes. what youre proposing is a 'smart' enchantment, which is completely opposite of their design. |
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I checked the wiki, by the way. It's a 1 out of 218.
If we were at a card table and I told you those were your odds, you would instantly fold your hand rather than invest anything more into it than the ante. You might even quit for the night and just take your winnings and go home. |
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" I understand what you are saying and I understand what he is saying. Don't get me wrong. I am just using that as a jumping point to pose a suggestion that is the inverse of that; where the system applies weight based on relevance to the particular character. I also understand that is the opposite of their design; I am deliberately suggesting the opposite of their design. I'm stating that I personally find their design to be way way too daunting. Completing content that can result in instant reset of 30 minutes of time on a mistake just to win maybe a 4-6 out of 218 to get an enchantment relevant to your build for an item that can become obsolete due to upgrades is too unbalanced of a reward system. Last edited by MadRabbitPoE#3590 on Mar 11, 2016, 4:14:56 PM
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you arent meant to brute force an enchanment for your skill easily. the enchantments are a quirky perc that may facilitate things like unique with enchantments trade/white base trade/auxilary skill trade. its neither mandatory nor meant to be easily achievable
I dont understand that quip about odds. odds are only meaningful in context. especially in card table analogy having, the EV is all that matters. if you have 1 to 218 odds to win 1000 dollars and you invest only 1 dollar, if you fold, you are doing a very dumb thing since you EV is almost +800 dollars |
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" What the experience is meant to be is ultimately for the developers to decide, not us. I did provide context though. I stated the investment was potentially 30 minutes of your time if you aren't speed running and easily double or triple that if you fail. I value that amount way more than $1 and the enchantments less than $1000. If you don't, that's cool. I'm fine with you thinking the system is fine is the way it is. That's your opinion and this forum is meant to share opinions to see what suggestions have merit. I just think improving the odds would result in a better player experience. Last edited by MadRabbitPoE#3590 on Mar 11, 2016, 4:25:04 PM
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" Actually, your EV isn't 800 dollars (you can't just subtract it like that, probability is not a guarantee of success after x number of tries) - you have an estimated 99.54% chance of failure. At 200 bets, you only have a 60.13% chance of a single win. To have even a 90% chance of success (literally 90.0087%), you'd have play 501 times. At this point, it's technically worth it if you fall into the 90th percentile (by definition, you're very likely to do so), and you'd double your money - roughly $500 value. Taking this back to the same odds with mods, if you wanted to be practically guaranteed to get your mod at least once (>95%, or >99%, I'll give both), you'd be looking at 652 runs (95.0099%) or 1002 runs (99.0017%). Even at 1002 runs, there's a 1% chance you won't have seen the mod you're after at least once, and that percentage never hits 100% because the formula always forms an asymptote - it just gets increasingly unlikely with every run. Source: WolframAlpha for quick math, and Geometric Distrubition for the formula (cumulative distribution function, 1 - (1 - p)^k, where p is probability and k is number of trials) |
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" you dont have to cling to numbers I provided. 30 minutes of your time is your investment, but how much is a perfect helmet with perfect enchantment for your build worth to you ? or to a buyer ? a rat's nest with a perfect attack-based enchantment for your build will be worth a lot, several exalts. how much is an exalt worth to you time-wise ? an hour ? two hours ? you running the lab 50 times while enchanting a rat's nest for a really good enchant will most likely pay off. eventually your investment will be like 10 mins because you'll get better understanding of the lab and run through it. if you like economy simulator, you could even buy up rats nests and brute force them, reselling them with good enchants, making a big profit over long run. that possibility is also factored in the odds. |
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" There you go, guys. Math. It's got numbers and it's a bitch (And holy shit, man. How have I lived this long and still not known about this website? That's life changing, man. Thanks for that. I can now stop relying so heavily on analogies and metaphors to obfuscate my laziness with actually doing the math.) |
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" I am not clinging to any numbers. I'm really well aware of the circumstances around running for enchantments and times speed runners have acquired. I'm still stating I think a pool of very specific skill enchantments amounting to a total of 218 with the bulk of percentage beings ones I can't effectively use without a completely different character is too much for evenly weighted odds. My player experience would be better if the odds were better in a way was relevant to my unique character. I would be willing to take better odds if they were balanced around less powerful enchantments or an inability to sell them on the market. If it helps to understand where this perspective comes from, I don't buy off the market. I am purely self found. |
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