SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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mezmery wrote:

if you actually played a game, not only this retarded forum thread' you'd knew. Also it is requiered to register here to play the game, so 100% of community visited this site at least once, and 913 means nothing.

you cant possibly know they are satisfied or no.

It's the developer's responsibility to make a game without shitty content or have the good content outweigh the teribad vomit inducing , i'd rather kick myself in the nuts than play content.

Anyway we will find out next friday if the good outweighs the terribad.

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Pyrokar wrote:

The charge people got a dev manifesto with an explanation in less than a day. Where is ours?

:(

They have basically said "we know you think it sucks, we put a lot of money in this and like the fact it's like hardcore deal with it."

Ignoring the fact you can pay a bad player with the right build to lol you thru it without ever fighting anything.

How can you write a Dev Manifesto about hypocrisy?

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goetzjam wrote:

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Pyrokar wrote:

The charge people got a dev manifesto with an explanation in less than a day. Where is ours?

:(

You mean the numerous times they explained the lab and the situation on podcast?

What about the lab design process?

Then of course the latest one, which is changes to the lab they posted.


You get responses to the lab you just are refusing to recognize them because they aren't the answer you were looking for, but that doesn't mean they aren't making post about it.


Also a lot more people are upset about the charge changes then the lab. I mean look at all of the post :)

This is actually on point and their game, we don't HAVE to play it but they have the right to make dev choices.

We have the right to whine knowing it won't change or they would remove the forums.

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Zalhan2 wrote:

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mezmery wrote:

if you actually played a game, not only this retarded forum thread' you'd knew. Also it is requiered to register here to play the game, so 100% of community visited this site at least once, and 913 means nothing.

you cant possibly know they are satisfied or no.

It's the developer's responsibility to make a game without shitty content or have the good content outweigh the teribad vomit inducing , i'd rather kick myself in the nuts than play content.

Anyway we will find out next friday if the good outweighs the terribad.

if you make game to satisfy everyone you get wow or d3

best developers select their audience and push that way, those who dont like it just leave. That's how we got poe.

you are free to go to d3 tho. there is no lab there and monster at g120 are pretty tough, just like you like.

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mezmery wrote:

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Zalhan2 wrote:

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mezmery wrote:

if you actually played a game, not only this retarded forum thread' you'd knew. Also it is requiered to register here to play the game, so 100% of community visited this site at least once, and 913 means nothing.

you cant possibly know they are satisfied or no.

It's the developer's responsibility to make a game without shitty content or have the good content outweigh the teribad vomit inducing , i'd rather kick myself in the nuts than play content.

Anyway we will find out next friday if the good outweighs the terribad.

if you make game to satisfy everyone you get wow or d3

best developers select their audience and push that way, those who dont like it just leave. That's how we got poe.

you are free to go to d3 tho. there is no lab there and monster at g120 are pretty tough, just like you like.

D3 is a great game! PoE has better game play. PoE has far more build diversity and replay-ability. These are probably the two most important things in an ARPG. The one thing that makes D3 a better game right now is that PoE has Labyrinth. That indicates to me that GGG missed the mark on labyrinth. GGG has apparently corrected for this a bit in 3.0. I'll try it and see if I'd like to come back.

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Turtledove wrote:

D3 is a great game! PoE has better game play. PoE has far more build diversity and replay-ability. These are probably the two most important things in an ARPG. The one thing that makes D3 a better game right now is that PoE has Labyrinth. That indicates to me that GGG missed the mark on labyrinth. GGG has apparently corrected for this a bit in 3.0. I'll try it and see if I'd like to come back.

it's fun how you praize divercity and deny unique labyrynth experience, just because you are bad player.

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Pyrokar wrote:

You are right, the answers we got were pretty weird and hard to recognize.

"You are a vocal minority. We don't care about you."

If you get something like that coming from the PR guy or the face of the company, then it's really hard to recognize.

No, i was thinking something like the thoughts behind implementing lab they way they did, why they put the class points behind it, why were the traps done the way they were, their damage types, their interaction with current gameplay, why were the trials not a one time thing. You know, stuff behind the scenes of the labyrinth.

I definitely wasn't looking for or expecting what we got as a response.
And maybe if they did a dev manifesto we could also have more sympathy and understanding.

The best guess I came up with is that GGG decided long ago that they were looking more toward the hardcore ARPG player, both to feel more comfortable making the kind of challenging game they felt passionate about making and would love to play themselves and for marketing efficiency reasons (hardcore gamers are more likely to stay and spend money). They probably convinced themselves before releasing labyrinth that player response wouldn't be universal love and they were OK with that.

If as a dev you look at lab as tending to attract the kind of gamer you'd like to attract and tending to drive away the ones you prefer not to spend time or money satisfying, then their "vocal minority" response becomes a bit more understandable. Also, the reality is that in the first month or two after lab was released the absolute numbers of negative responses was a low ratio compared to all players.

At the end of the day, though, it doesn't seem particularly tactful or humble to have written off those who dislike lab as a "vocal minority". The phrase "PR blunder" comes to mind in part because having one's viewpoint dismissed doesn't tend to sit well with many people, particularly those who were previously supportive of the game. Also, nobody has good data on the percentage of players who enjoy running labyrinth; all they can tell for certain is whether players put up with it and, given the rewards, most of those who dislike labyrinth probably do.

Regulator's mega-thread, Turtle's count of player complaints, many stories from players who love the game and still hate lab, and the ironically helpful, endless efforts by a handful of posters to stalk, jeer and intimidate those who post complaints about lab have probably raised the level of awareness inside GGG that lab is an issue that isn't going away. My best guess is that we will get another dev manifesto at some point, but probably after the XBox release and well after 3.0.

I could, of course, be wrong in thinking we ever get another dev manifesto. Escalation of commitment isn't a fun process to work through, in the end, and many organizations struggle with it from time to time (not just GGG).

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EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

... and the ironically helpful, endless efforts by a handful of posters to stalk, jeer and intimidate those who post complaints about lab have probably raised the level of awareness inside GGG that lab is an issue that isn't going away. ...

+1 to the unsung heroes

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EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

Also, nobody has good data on the percentage of players who enjoy running labyrinth; (...)

Fruz does. He is a psychic, don't you know that?

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EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

Also, nobody has good data on the percentage of players who enjoy running labyrinth; all they can tell for certain is whether players put up with it and, given the rewards, most of those who dislike labyrinth probably do.

i dont like to trade. but i have to, because i am 9 to 5 employee and have really limited time. that's how it works.
grow up already.
i also dont like lab very much, but i love 20-30 c per run without any time and currency investment.