SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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Regulator wrote:

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Deliverme wrote:

For me the solution is simple: Design the lab so that traps lead to nice chest rewards, and non trap areas lead to Izario. I like the chests there, but would be okay if they removed those and our reward was simply ascendancy points and enchantment.

I absolutely despise the traps, and do not play an ARPG to see how well I can dodge a spiked dough roller.

Added the suggestion in the "Labyrinth Rework Ideas" spoiler in the OP

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Pyrokar wrote:

Did anyone suggest something about a vendor recipe for asc points? For example: Selling 5 offering to the godess + an orb of augmentation lets you get your ascendancy points for the difficulty you sell them at.

Something along that line could be reasonable and economy stimulating.

Added the suggestion in the "Alternative Ascension Methods" spoiler in the OP.

Thanks both for the suggestions, hope more people can help that way.

We are now at 19 unique suggestions that one way or another will help us improve the current system. Keep up the good work people.

Thanks for putting it in the OP Regulator. I am actually happy that people are still trying to make this a better game for everyone, even if it seems that giving feedback feels like talking to a wall. Walls have ears though, right?

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Sarah_GGG wrote:

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Gee, I wonder why this topic is so polarizing. Maybe you (GGG) just botched it (shot yourself in the foot) and have coded yourself to be trapped in your own labyrinth? Let's see, if there was only another way to acquire Ascendancy points without the tedious lab rat runs and triple Izaro battles that are just a gear check of a bore to do. Just ramping up Izaro damage so we (most) need to over-level to survive boss fight was very dumb (non-clever) mechanic. Nothing to do but wait until we are sufficiently uber to take him on and face roll him. Where's the fun in that?

I already put my 2 cents in on this and suggested that Izaro difficulty be set to be the same level as exile and of course he is balanced to not need to be so uber at 33/55/68. That way if I take Normal Izaro at level 35 exile he is also level 35 difficulty. The 33/55/68 are minimum exile level before I can make the lab run but if I wait then he is also at same level of difficulty. Thus no need to make him so uber for the level we typically wait until 10+ levels above before taking him on.

We will see a rework of AC points in 3.0 for sure

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Arrowneous wrote:

Gee, I wonder why this topic is so polarizing. Maybe you (GGG) just botched it (shot yourself in the foot) and have coded yourself to be trapped in your own labyrinth? Let's see, if there was only another way to acquire Ascendancy points without the tedious lab rat runs and triple Izaro battles that are just a gear check of a bore to do. Just ramping up Izaro damage so we (most) need to over-level to survive boss fight was very dumb (non-clever) mechanic. Nothing to do but wait until we are sufficiently uber to take him on and face roll him. Where's the fun in that?

I already put my 2 cents in on this and suggested that Izaro difficulty be set to be the same level as exile and of course he is balanced to not need to be so uber at 33/55/68. That way if I take Normal Izaro at level 35 exile he is also level 35 difficulty. The 33/55/68 are minimum exile level before I can make the lab run but if I wait then he is also at same level of difficulty. Thus no need to make him so uber for the level we typically wait until 10+ levels above before taking him on.

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DDusk wrote:

We will see a rework of AC points in 3.0 for sure

Two new account names added to the list of people in the forum that have supported change to labyrinth. I too hope that GGG fixes the problem in 3.0. It would be in their best interest to do so.

The complete list is in the OP of this thread, Over 270 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 620 posters in support

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Jgizle wrote:

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Reuel21 wrote:

Dunno if this has been suggested yet, but, it makes sense to me that 'ascendancy' points are logical to award when one 'ascends' to the next difficulty. So, grant 3 when a player beats normal difficulty, 3 more when they beat cruel and the last 2 when they beat merciless. When the game creates act V and goes to two difficulty levels, give 4 and 4 or some such.

Bump up loot quality a bit for clearing lab and between enchants and loot, folks still would have a reason to run it.

My 2 cents.

This is a bad suggestion. Making it to the next difficulty does not qualify as ascending.

Likewise any method of getting points out of lab is dumb. These are not regular passive points. One of these is worth several normal passive tree nodes. These are far more powerful. You must complete content as strong as the nodes you unlock. Izaro is the strongest in the game with the exception of maybe shaper. Beating him is what qualifies as ascending.

The only other option is allowing people to get AC points by killing shaper. Lets see how many people would rather do that fight than Izaro.

Ascending is whatever GGG makes it be, and my feedback on this topic does not presume to be factual; it is simply my idea for removing such 'ascension' from the lab. That is, beating the end game story boss can most certainly be construed as 'ascending'.

Your suggestion of tying ascension to shaper would render these points essentially unavailable to 95% of the player population, which I think is a poor idea for obvious reasons. You are correct that ascendancy points are huge bumps to power and build enabling in many cases. They are fun to get and should be accessible to most players at certain benchmarks of gameplay. I recall Chris stating a while ago that a low percentage of players ever even make it out of normal difficulty, so I think providing players a nice significant bonus for ascending to the next difficulty might work quite well and reward players for sticking with the game.

You have strong opinions about the matter which is fine, but limiting access to players' getting ascension points by tying them to shaper is the wrong direction, in my opinion.

Turtledove, i just want to compliment you on the amazing job you have done by keeping track of every lab related thread while also continuing with Zaludoz's list of people against the lab. Your persistence is admirable and i appreciate the work you've done.

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Reuel21 wrote:

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Jgizle wrote:

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Reuel21 wrote:

Dunno if this has been suggested yet, but, it makes sense to me that 'ascendancy' points are logical to award when one 'ascends' to the next difficulty. So, grant 3 when a player beats normal difficulty, 3 more when they beat cruel and the last 2 when they beat merciless. When the game creates act V and goes to two difficulty levels, give 4 and 4 or some such.

Bump up loot quality a bit for clearing lab and between enchants and loot, folks still would have a reason to run it.

My 2 cents.

This is a bad suggestion. Making it to the next difficulty does not qualify as ascending.

Likewise any method of getting points out of lab is dumb. These are not regular passive points. One of these is worth several normal passive tree nodes. These are far more powerful. You must complete content as strong as the nodes you unlock. Izaro is the strongest in the game with the exception of maybe shaper. Beating him is what qualifies as ascending.

The only other option is allowing people to get AC points by killing shaper. Lets see how many people would rather do that fight than Izaro.

Ascending is whatever GGG makes it be, and my feedback on this topic does not presume to be factual; it is simply my idea for removing such 'ascension' from the lab. That is, beating the end game story boss can most certainly be construed as 'ascending'.

Your suggestion of tying ascension to shaper would render these points essentially unavailable to 95% of the player population, which I think is a poor idea for obvious reasons. You are correct that ascendancy points are huge bumps to power and build enabling in many cases. They are fun to get and should be accessible to most players at certain benchmarks of gameplay. I recall Chris stating a while ago that a low percentage of players ever even make it out of normal difficulty, so I think providing players a nice significant bonus for ascending to the next difficulty might work quite well and reward players for sticking with the game.

You have strong opinions about the matter which is fine, but limiting access to players' getting ascension points by tying them to shaper is the wrong direction, in my opinion.

It is no longer accurate data that chris used. The data he uses is based on all players who ever played poe, including bots. To be clear his data is based on over 11 million accounts. I think we all know the active player base is not even 200k at best. Just steam alone has less than 40k and thats the most popular program for finding new games on pc. I can assume about half the playerbase is using the official client and half is using the steam client. Maybe at most double on official client. Still not close to the % that is used by Chris.

Most people do complete up to merciless who are not bots. Maybe a majority just quits in merciless as its a bit harder than cruel.

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Jgizle wrote:

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The_Reporter wrote:

If it's not difficult for you, then how do you assume it's difficult for anyone else?

Uber carries would not be a thing if it was so easy people could do it themselves. I know because i make a killing carrying noobs through it.

Lab changing would ruin Jgizles cash cow. Its no wonder he fights tooth and nail to support no changes to the lab so he can continue to cheese it with his LV 89 juggernaut and make mad cash. Is an opinion with someone so invested in raking noobs in lab worth anything? I say no he is too biased so the real wonder here is why the community continues to engage him in this thread.

bump

make poe great again!

So many pages, this was probably suggested before but here goes nothing:

I find the idea of free ascendancy points to be terrible, so instead;
If people really hate the lab and traps that much, at start of lab give an alternate entry point, to a "challenge arena", players should be warned that they cannot gain keys or enchants (or maybe you can get enchants solely for normal and cruel since they dont matter that much) by doing this, only ascendancy points.

The arena would be double or triple size (maybe something a bit more intelligent than that) where you fight both Izaro and Argus at the same time (or maybe, Izaro, Argus and Goddess on a pillar in center?), maybe have some more adds/boss/small buffs/random izaro buffs per day? Either way dont make it too easy. No traps obviously. Beat the challenge and you get your ascendancy points for the difficulty

I think this could also double as way to test your character and have a fun, hard fight.


Sorry for the terrible way I wrote this I think this would be pretty cool alternative. Simple and to the point, I believe it should make the people complaining about ascendancy points and how they hate lab happy. its much more in line with "normal" game design