Hierophant and Ritual of Awakening

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

My, aren't we full of assumptions?

EDIT:Based on my 1000dps totem start example.
I was using Ritual of destruction with the highest DPS spec possible, 5 totems gets you to 2,500 dps total BUT the extra cast time isn't worth it. It would do more damage to self cast at that time. I also ASSUMED THAT TOTEMS LAST FOREVER AND NEVER DIE. And this is based around an average playstyle of 10 seconds per pack. Since I am assuming totems last forever and never die I AM ACTUALLY BEING VERY VERY NICE TO RITUAL OF AWAKENING I am actually giving the benefit of a doubt to Ritual and you want to say this is wrong?

Also, I believe when people want to play totem builds they want to use totems. So yes, assuming a totem build will BUILD TOTEM DAMAGE MEANS THAT SELF CAST WILL BE LACKING SLIGHTLY. saying self cast damage is the SAME as totem is actually wrong as self cast dps would be much lower IN A TOTEM BUILD. I was actually giving the benefit of a doubt to self-cast damage in a totem spec by saying its about equal DPS. Or maybe you are saying I am assuming wrong that the damage is that high in a totem spec?
Or maybe you are saying that Ritual of Awakening will go self cast? Not Totem?
Going a self cast build (zero totem spec) would gimp totem damage so low, it would lose DPS (over an understandable amount of time) to put them down. Obviously if Totems were infinite, never died, and never had to be replaced around new packs they would increase your DPS as time reach infinity. As time is not infinite I am assuming that 4 totems would be the higher damage with self cast as the 5th totem (only adding 100 dps to our 2400) would not be worth 1 second of 1000 dps self cast. It would take 10 seconds at 100dps to make of even a single second of lost self-cast damage.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Oh, and with all that 1H vs 2H stuff, you're talking about the Ascendancy with a 3x5L option. Potentially 6L with stuff like Rime Gaze.

Rime Gaze only adds a conc effect, not 2 gems, at least last time I checked the Wiki. This argument is actually valid, that certain uniques MIGHT benefit a hybrid build. But because of the previous two paragraphs I say that the damage you gain from said links would probably be outclasses but a pure damage build. You CAN add, lets say elemental hit, to a dominating blow build using specific items to scale elemental damage BUT the pure dominating blow spec would (probably) do more damage.
Basically: If you want to be a hipster self-cast/totem build go ahead, but don't lie and say its the best totem damage spec.
EDIT: Soul mantle is a 7L, already beating out your trashy 5L boots/helm/gloves. Too bad that additional totem adds a an increased 10% less multiplier making your damage actually go down if you go Ritual. My links are better than yours GG.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

And even after all that apparent disagreement, what you're basically saying is: What Ritual of Awakening DOESN'T do is make Ancestral Bond builds stronger. Instead it encourages a more active, multiple-skill playstyle.

Ritual of Awakening promotes a more active multiple-skill playstyle by making totems TRASH. It promotes a more active playstyle by making you just go selfcast with 0 totems use. It literally destroys the synergy that you try to create with totem builds. You might as well just go self cast.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

And no, it isn't always worse. For example, 6L trash clear skill + single-target totems for rares/bosses.

Again, you are gimping your totems in a way which destroys their damage potential. You might as well go self cast with an AOE for trash mobs and also self cast on a single target skill.
On a totem spec you could go aoe clear on spark totem and then several single target totems for bosses without gimping your damage with Ritual of Awakening.




Take a look at the realities. This passive adds a less multiplier that gives diminishing returns the more you add on. With the totem playstyle it would be mad to take a less damage multiplier just so you can stop being a totem build.

ALSO:
You can already use the playstyle you are talking about. Self cast +1 totem. But the lifetime of the totem probably doesnt put enough damage out to make that .5 second totem placement worth it. You might as well self-cast intsead.




Summary: Go ahead and ignore any cons that exist. No matter what Ritual of Awakening is a detriment to totem builds. If you want to go totems and have totems as your main damage, don't take it. It wouldnt make sense to take heirophant with ess drain. but maybe the wither totems make it good enough to use for bossing.

Don't take this for totem builds.
Don't take it for selfcast builds.
If you want to Roleplay a selfcast/totem build and take this? don't expect to have the same dps as either totem or selfcast builds.

EDIT:Grammar

I personally would never ever play a pure totem build, unless you target spezific content.
Ancestral Bond makes you unable to leach live and mana, which is basicly the biggest downside of all keystones. I predict that it will be changed if the difficulty rises.
Totems are only easy-mode as long there is enough room to kite.
I only see 2 directions for ""bad for leach mechaniks"",
Absurd lifereg +RF+ regular leach, because you can still remove rf in oh-shit moments
propably with ""mini-volls"" for constant immortal call.
or
Vaalpact+ all your 3-4 link gear full of CwDt with ""3x5links"" because 2%lifeleach in boots.
But, what do i know ;D

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ComradeSovietPavel wrote:

4 totems ritual of awakening

You mean 3, right? Unless you're doing something weird to get a fourth...

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ComradeSovietPavel wrote:

self cast dps is equal to starting totem DPS

My self cast is *WAY* more powerful than a totem. But maybe there's something I don't know about late-game totem power? Totem nodes won't fully make up for the power drop, right? Unless you're strictly a totem build, but then why not just do AB instead of RoA?

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ComradeSovietPavel wrote:

you only gain 1 passive point because you still want the nodes before Ancestral bond

Not necessarily? What else is out there that we'd need except maybe life nodes?


I love the idea (if it would work well enough) of being able to use Skeletotem for meat shield, plus two Arc totems, and STILL being able to self-cast my spork spiders. That would have to be better than NOT having the totems, right? And it might be better than Inquisitor passives for crit chance and the like.


-VG-

What you missed is that it's LESS totem damage, meaning it's multiplicative for each totem. That means that you get your 100% damage increase withtout any totems, 100 - (100 * 0.1) = 90 with a totem, 90 - (90*0.1) = 81 with two and 81 - (81 * 0.1) = 72,9 damage increase. Since you have multiple totems it would be 100 damage with no totem, 90 damage with a totem, 162 with two and 218,7 with three.

i had a templar respec for an Incinerate character (mid-level gear, 5link, MoM-tank)

I always respec characters, not re-roll them so I had Guardian (not really), Inqusitor and Hierophant as a choices

Inquisitor was an option due to Consecrated Ground (and Incinerator fights stationary so the bonus should be there). However I've tried Inquisitor on my melee guy and wasnt much impressed (non-crit)

Hierophant gave a straight bonus to MoM that i liked (i free ride the OP mechanics - it is really very very strong mitigation when build and played right) and stuff

Picked the +2 totems

and it is amazing in practice

I have 0 totem nodes, 4Link for a Flame Totem and it increased my clear speed dramatically.

- you use it only when needed. i can live with this perk being 'off' during 90% of the map/lab clear. but when you need it - like to facetank Argus or full-charges Izaro - you have 3 totems dealing dps and soaking the damage. i do not care if they do 30% less damage each. I deal enough damage myself because Im not molested by the big bad boss as he is slamming my disposable totems

- it is quicker to cast a totem into a small 'cell' in Dungeon-type maps than to walk to it, gain LoS, kill 2 mobs. it is easier to throw totems left and right instead of attacking enemies one by one. Abaxoth was never easier

- i play Hybrid ES/Life + MoM. So my shield depletes quickly during the fight and then MoM kicks in. I like this playstyle but for full effectiveness i need to replenish ES from time to time. letting totems take some aggro is perfect for this.

I understand that for some other classes there are better choices but I wouldnt call this passive 'BAD'. It fits certain playstyles and gives bonuses that are difficult to quantify on the numbers alone.

This in general quite interesting class. just overshadowed by other 'offensive' classes. this one is on the defensive side

Note also that it only reduces *totem damage*.

So, for example, it won't reduce the effects of any utility totems.

Also, it won't reduce the damage of minions summoned from totems. (3, 4 or 5 SRS totems anyone?)

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brunorealm087 wrote:

What you missed is that it's LESS totem damage, meaning it's multiplicative for each totem. That means that you get your 100% damage increase withtout any totems, 100 - (100 * 0.1) = 90 with a totem, 90 - (90*0.1) = 81 with two and 81 - (81 * 0.1) = 72,9 damage increase. Since you have multiple totems it would be 100 damage with no totem, 90 damage with a totem, 162 with two and 218,7 with three.

We don't know that for sure, read about frenzy charges on page 1.

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brunorealm087 wrote:

What you missed is that it's LESS totem damage, meaning it's multiplicative for each totem. That means that you get your 100% damage increase withtout any totems, 100 - (100 * 0.1) = 90 with a totem, 90 - (90*0.1) = 81 with two and 81 - (81 * 0.1) = 72,9 damage increase. Since you have multiple totems it would be 100 damage with no totem, 90 damage with a totem, 162 with two and 218,7 with three.

More and less modifier from the same source are additive.