Hierophant and Ritual of Awakening

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Jackinthegreen wrote:

This interpretation is incorrect. If the More or Less mods are from the same source they do not stack multiplicatively with itself. If More and Less mods from the same source stacked then 2 Frenzy charges would give 1.04*1.04= 1.0816 or 8.16% more damage, but they do not.

Likewise, the Ritual of Awakening's Less multipliers do not stack multiplicatively with themselves. Thus, the OP's math is correct.

Frenzy charges give increased attack speed, not more attack speed. So your example is bad. But your overall point is good.

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Jackinthegreen wrote:

This interpretation is incorrect. If the More or Less mods are from the same source they do not stack multiplicatively with itself. If More and Less mods from the same source stacked then 2 Frenzy charges would give 1.04*1.04= 1.0816 or 8.16% more damage, but they do not.

Likewise, the Ritual of Awakening's Less multipliers do not stack multiplicatively with themselves. Thus, the OP's math is correct.

Well, trying to figure out what GGG means with any given mechanic tends to be harder than translating ancient Sumerian prophecies. Being horrendously opaque is the modus operandi in this game (what even are you supposed to do with Izaro's idols? Just freaking explain the rules of the game).

I'm actually at this point wondering if there was a mistake in the wording, because the more I look at it the more I think reducing the power of one active totem to 90% makes no sense and is just an objective nerf to the player. I can get reducing the power of totems past 1, but you shouldn't be penalized if you decide to eschew your newfound skill for a bit and just use one. The again, logic tends to get thrown out in favor of "fuck the player, because hurdcurr."

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AkuTenshiiZero wrote:

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Jackinthegreen wrote:

This interpretation is incorrect. If the More or Less mods are from the same source they do not stack multiplicatively with itself. If More and Less mods from the same source stacked then 2 Frenzy charges would give 1.04*1.04= 1.0816 or 8.16% more damage, but they do not.

Likewise, the Ritual of Awakening's Less multipliers do not stack multiplicatively with themselves. Thus, the OP's math is correct.

Well, trying to figure out what GGG means with any given mechanic tends to be harder than translating ancient Sumerian prophecies. Being horrendously opaque is the modus operandi in this game (what even are you supposed to do with Izaro's idols? Just freaking explain the rules of the game).

I'm actually at this point wondering if there was a mistake in the wording, because the more I look at it the more I think reducing the power of one active totem to 90% makes no sense and is just an objective nerf to the player. I can get reducing the power of totems past 1, but you shouldn't be penalized if you decide to eschew your newfound skill for a bit and just use one. The again, logic tends to get thrown out in favor of "fuck the player, because hurdcurr."

Ever looked at Flameblast? That thing gives 110% MORE damage per stage up to TEN stages, now imagine the damage output if that wouldn't stack.^^

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Zanryu wrote:

Just to note it here before talking:

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Can have up to 2 additional Totems summoned at a time
10% less Totem Damage per active Totem

So apparently this note should be great for Totemancer. And the reduced damage seems fine at the first point, but its far worse than I previously thought.

With Soul Mantle and Ancestral Bond you can have 3 Totems resulting 3 * 100% = 300% damage.

With Ritual of Awakening you can have up to 5 totems and the damage will result in this:

1 Totem -> 1 * 90% = 90%
2 Totems -> 2 * 80% = 160%
3 Totems -> 3 * 70% = 210%
4 Totems -> 4 * 60% = 240%
5 Totems -> 5 * 50% = 250%
6 Totems -> 6 * 40% = 240% (Searing Bond)


So apparently using Ritual of Awakening reduces your damage of damaging totems when you're using Soul Mantle.

Seems like someone is missing the point that Ancestral Bond prevents you from dealing damage yourself.
And Soul Mantle? That would mean you are forced for a specific unique.

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dudiobugtron wrote:

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Jackinthegreen wrote:

This interpretation is incorrect. If the More or Less mods are from the same source they do not stack multiplicatively with itself. If More and Less mods from the same source stacked then 2 Frenzy charges would give 1.04*1.04= 1.0816 or 8.16% more damage, but they do not.

Likewise, the Ritual of Awakening's Less multipliers do not stack multiplicatively with themselves. Thus, the OP's math is correct.

Frenzy charges give increased attack speed, not more attack speed. So your example is bad. But your overall point is good.

L2Read.

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dudiobugtron wrote:

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Jackinthegreen wrote:

This interpretation is incorrect. If the More or Less mods are from the same source they do not stack multiplicatively with itself. If More and Less mods from the same source stacked then 2 Frenzy charges would give 1.04*1.04= 1.0816 or 8.16% more damage, but they do not.

Likewise, the Ritual of Awakening's Less multipliers do not stack multiplicatively with themselves. Thus, the OP's math is correct.

Frenzy charges give increased attack speed, not more attack speed. So your example is bad. But your overall point is good.

I never said attack speed anywhere in my post. Frenzy Charges give 4% more -damage- each, not 4% more attack speed, and I specifically said "more damage" which I have emphasized in the quote.

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SuperMotte wrote:

Ever looked at Flameblast? That thing gives 110% MORE damage per stage up to TEN stages, now imagine the damage output if that wouldn't stack.^^

Frenzy charges stack additively, and so do Flameblast's stages. The person I was originally replying to thought that Ritual of Awakening stacked multiplicatively with itself, which it does not and neither do Frenzy charges nor Flameblast.

To run the math again, if Frenzy charges stacked multiplicatively with themselves then the damage would go from 4% more at 1 charge to 8.16% more at 2, then 12.48% at 3, 16.98% at 4, 21.66% at 5, and so on. If Frenzy charges stacked multiplicatively with themselves then at 10 charges they would grant 48.02% more damage instead of the 40% that is actually in the game.

Then there's Flameblast's damage. It currently stacks additively which means the first stage is 110%, second is 220%, and so on up to the 10th stage which is 1100% more damage. If it was multiplicative then the first stage would be 110%, the second would be 341%, the third would be 826.1%, and the fourth stage would be 1844.81%. The tenth? 166698.8098%, which is roughly 1668 times as much damage as the baseline instead of the comparatively humble 12 times as much damage the actual Flameblast's 10th stage does.

Flameblast is the perfect example of why more modifiers from the same source do not stack multiplicatively with themselves.

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AkuTenshiiZero wrote:

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Jackinthegreen wrote:

This interpretation is incorrect. If the More or Less mods are from the same source they do not stack multiplicatively with itself. If More and Less mods from the same source stacked then 2 Frenzy charges would give 1.04*1.04= 1.0816 or 8.16% more damage, but they do not.

Likewise, the Ritual of Awakening's Less multipliers do not stack multiplicatively with themselves. Thus, the OP's math is correct.

Well, trying to figure out what GGG means with any given mechanic tends to be harder than translating ancient Sumerian prophecies. Being horrendously opaque is the modus operandi in this game (what even are you supposed to do with Izaro's idols? Just freaking explain the rules of the game).

I'm actually at this point wondering if there was a mistake in the wording, because the more I look at it the more I think reducing the power of one active totem to 90% makes no sense and is just an objective nerf to the player. I can get reducing the power of totems past 1, but you shouldn't be penalized if you decide to eschew your newfound skill for a bit and just use one. The again, logic tends to get thrown out in favor of "fuck the player, because hurdcurr."

The entire point of Ritual of Awakening is you'll have 2 or more totems out at once. A player will never take it if they only need the 1 totem in the first place. Ritual of Awakening is only for those builds that always have 2 or more totems out at the same time.

Look guys, it's real simple.

NOT Ancestral Bond AND Ritual of Awakening

Ancestral Bond OR Ritual of Awakening

Ritual isn't a useless node, at a minimum it provides:
* saved passive points not getting Ancestral Bond
* you can do damage with your Skills yourself

What Ritual of Awakening DOESN'T do is make Ancestral Bond builds stronger. Instead it encourages a more active, multiple-skill playstyle.

Self cast skill does not make up the dps lost.

And if you plan on using wands, or daggers, or 1h+shield, you only have ONE 6L for damage.
If you put totems on your 6L, you might as well go ancestral bond only because it will always do more damage than going Ritual of Awakening.
If you put a self cast skill on your 6L you might as well DROP ALL TOTEMS FROM YOUR BUILD BECAUSE YOU WONT DEAL DAMAGE WITH THEM.
If you are going totems in any way other than wither, you shouldn't go Ritual of awakening.



Unless GGG is trying to destroy 1h meta for totems, Ritual of awakening is always a wrong decision.
It only makes sense if you do 2h but even then...

at 1000 dps per totem
4 totems = 4k (ancestral bond + mantle + searing bond)
4 totems ritual of awakening = 2,400

You are taking a 40% damage reduction for the ability to cast one more skill.
If we assume self cast dps is equal to starting totem DPS (which it would be less because all your totem nodes) self cast would only add 1,000 dps

4 totems = 4k dps
4 totems + 1 skill = 2,400+1,000 or 3,400dps.
You loose 600dps, or a 15% less damage for going Ritual of awakening AND a self cast skill

Going Ritual totems AND self cast skill is still always worse than going ancestral bond.

(also, you only gain 1 passive point because you still want the nodes before Ancestral bond)
(If you want to gain passives from not going ancestral bond, you might as well go pure self cast and take ZERO totem nodes at all. Then you are not playing a totem build)

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ComradeSovietPavel wrote:

4 totems ritual of awakening

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ComradeSovietPavel wrote:

self cast dps is equal to starting totem DPS

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ComradeSovietPavel wrote:

you only gain 1 passive point because you still want the nodes before Ancestral bond

My, aren't we full of assumptions?

Oh, and with all that 1H vs 2H stuff, you're talking about the Ascendancy with a 3x5L option. Potentially 6L with stuff like Rime Gaze.

And even after all that apparent disagreement, what you're basically saying is: What Ritual of Awakening DOESN'T do is make Ancestral Bond builds stronger. Instead it encourages a more active, multiple-skill playstyle.

And no, it isn't always worse. For example, 6L trash clear skill + single-target totems for rares/bosses.

is quite good with 4x totems , otherwise i wouldn't know why you would want more then 3