Labyrinth is a test of skill, Izaro is a test of stats

I was afraid this would happen, and I've had enough of it.

I am a filthy casual. That is to say I play this game pretty much daily, spend hours tinkering with my build offline, planing my characters out long in advance. I have like 20 characters and 455 hours played.

And that's apparently fucking "casual," because I have the gall to be creative with the build system and not just play the #1 hypertank GG gear build with the latest broken skill gem.

But this isn't about me, this is about how utterly pissed and disappointed I am in the new content. I spent a solid amount of time exploring the labyrinth, longer than I needed to because it was my first time and I was looking for cool stuff. There wasn't any, par for the fucking course, but eventually I found my way to the first encounter with Izaro. My first impression of the labyrinth was that it was an interesting new take on the game, I liked that it was completely unaffected by your gear and build since traps do set damage. Enemies felt mostly decorative, I really just kinda wish they weren't there since they're just there to annoy you and I feel like navigating the traps should have been the focus. I do like the "friendly fire" aspect making enemies just as susceptible to traps as you are. Solidly designed, if the entire labyrinth was just this getting progressively harder I would be just fine.

But it's not just traps, is it?

Enter Izaro, the latest in a series of bad jokes by GGG. Much like everything from Dominus onward, Izaro is not a boss. Izaro is a god damn boolean check. If player_stats = X, door_open. I am so sick and tired of these bosses because it always comes down to the same thing: Circle around him, hit 1-2 times, circle around him, hit 1-2 times, get hit by that one attack with no telegraph because every boss has one. There is no execution skill here, there is endurance combined with raw numbers.

This game is well documented for it's overtuned bosses, and for the most part it hasn't been a problem. No-lifers on hardcore can flog themselves to their hearts content, while filthy casuals can resign spawn-rushing. But that's not an option here. You have closed off the door to the average gamer. The kind of gamer that makes up the vast majority of most game's population. And I know the old argument is "Well it's not the game for you." First off, this WAS the game for me before the act 3 expansion showed us what we were going to be in for in the future. Secondly, telling an entire category of average-skilled gamers to leave is possibly the dumbest idea ever, you might as well shut the servers down at that point. And the operative words here are "average-skilled." Look, I don't care how much of a boner some peole get from playing hardcore to level 100, that doesn't effect me. What does effect me is the non-hardcore content. By all means, have the hardcore server put peoples' balls in a vice, but let me actually enjoy the god damn game.

And that's what it comes down to: Enjoyment. Frustration is not fun, not unless your a masochist. Completing a broken boss fight does not make me feel accomplished, it makes me angry that it took 20+ spawn-rushes. I don't care how much the hardcore deny it, it's time to face the truth: This game is too difficult.

I've only done Normal and Cruel Lab so far, but as soon as i have mastered Merciless Labyrinth, i will be more than happy to help you get through it if you want.


Peace,

-Even more casual than a Filthy Casual-

No offence, but I'm just as filthy and just as casual.

My initial reaction to Izaro was not unlike yours.

A few days of play later, I felt completely different. I started to see how he ticks. He is definitely not a test of stats or gear. There are patterns and there are tricks. Some of his variations are worse than others, but they all make sense.

I found him utterly impenetrable at level 35. By level 37, I started to endure his forms. By 39, I was dying to his third form. By 41, after about 4 attempts and playing through to Deshret first, I had him nailed.

My gear hardly changed in that time. I'd say my Arc damage went up about 200 dps, maybe 300. My ES and HP went up about 2-300 each as well. Those points from Piety and Deshret did help. I won't deny that.

All that really changed was that I'd experienced several of his variations and I knew what to expect. How they worked. When I could hit him. When I should run. What I should make my stand.

Give it a bit of time. First day feedback is never a brilliant idea for content this demanding, but I understand your urge to give it. I felt the same way on alpha. I was like OH GOD GGG WHAT HAVE YOU DONE....pretty sure I made a post basically saying I'd probably just pay for Izaro kills on Live...

But a few days and some dedicated play/learning later I had him down, and I amended my feedback accordingly.

I hope you experience something similar.

"

HeWhoAnswersTheCall wrote:

No offence, but I'm just as filthy and just as casual.

My initial reaction to Izaro was not unlike yours.

tell us, chatman, how much do you get paid to do this damage control PR bullcrap? because you're not fooling anyone. You don't get alpha access as a casual.

now stfu and quit posing as someone with shitty (your word) skills. I'm never going to 'come to peace' (again, your word) with the fact that GGG is shitting in the faces of their largest segment.

I'm not a fan of it, it's not like it's a difficulty thing either, it just seems out of place for PoE.

After I get my 6 ascendancy points, I doubt I'll ever step foot in there again.

This thread is quickly turning into a People v. Charan thread. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. Opinions are subjective, although from what I'm getting from looking at these forums, plenty of people are either dissatisfied or just plain angry about this expansion.

I'm not so sure about this expansion, and what it might do to the playerbase. It seems to be tearing people apart.

"

joachimbond wrote:

"

HeWhoAnswersTheCall wrote:

No offence, but I'm just as filthy and just as casual.

My initial reaction to Izaro was not unlike yours.

tell us, chatman, how much do you get paid to do this damage control PR bullcrap? because you're not fooling anyone. You don't get alpha access as a casual.

now stfu and quit posing as someone with shitty (your word) skills. I'm never going to 'come to peace' (again, your word) with the fact that GGG is shitting in the faces of their largest segment.

I got alpha access as a forum moderator in August, 2012. It was both a perk and a test of trust, since alpha is usually NDA.

I don't get paid by GGG. Quite the opposite, although I haven't supported them in a while now. And before you go ranting about me 'buying' privileges, forum moderation was hard work, often thankless, and ultimately futile, as you are proving quite nicely.

"

zalfargia wrote:

I'm not a fan of it, it's not like it's a difficulty thing either, it just seems out of place for PoE.

After I get my 6 ascendancy points, I doubt I'll ever step foot in there again.

This thread is quickly turning into a People v. Charan thread. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. Opinions are subjective, although from what I'm getting from looking at these forums, plenty of people are either dissatisfied or just plain angry about this expansion.

I'm not so sure about this expansion, and what it might do to the playerbase. It seems to be tearing people apart.

I'm a huge fan of something a lot of people don't like. All my friends like it, but that makes sense: we're of like mind. Most of us are from Closed Beta, before this game turned into what we view as a spam fest mindless grinding trade simulator...all that.

From my perspective, they're spoiled brats who are upset that GGG have put something into their game that they don't like. Nevermind that it's optional, or that within a week, people will be charging for Izaro kills. The backlash has been less rational and more emotional. I am sure GGG will take that on board. It's also not even a few days old and already people are making up their minds on content that takes longer than that to integrate into one's perspective of the game. I'm trying to show that from my own experiences, but eh.

From their perspective, I'm a shill who whiteknights all the time and probably has Chris on speed-dial. It's easy to see things that way when you don't know just how many times I've attacked GGG on here for all sorts of changes and decisions I've felt were stupid. Or that I've been on probation more than just about any other regular.

It doesn't really matter. What matters is that this Labyrinth has divided people quite starkly, and as usual, only those with contention are bothering to post. It looks like a lot, but if you consider that GGG broke their concurrency record and the server is *still* unstable due to load, even a few hundred people really upset at the Labyrinth and making individual threads are not even a drop in the proverbial ocean. And it must be assumed that a lot of the people playing who aren't posting are enjoying things just fine.

It's always easier to play the beset peacemaker when your side's the one with the advantage.

Yes, I characterized this issue as 'sided', because GGG wants to divide the Super Mario players from the arpg players.

I HATED Super Mario with a passion. Why bring elements from that type of game into this one?

Ugh. I'm not even angry anymore, i'm just very, very disgusted. All those valuable hours of mine, flushed down the toilet.

And you say crap like "come to peace with it". What sort of reaction do you expect for your sanctimony? a "gee mister, thanks!" with a cheerful smile?

i HATE 'trials' - they are chores you have to do, mind-numbingly boring after 2nd time

but..

i enjoy the labyrinth. it took 2 runs to get acquainted with it. 2 more runs to understand how Izaro runs (he is VERY easy, some tips below). after that i farm Lab ~10 min run each. it is very enjoyable (for me) - why? because the MAP is fixed for entire day. first run of the day is the 'bad one' as you have to guess (there are patterns but you have to be lucky) and after that it is a matter of streamlining.

Izaro fight

he is easy. he is NOT overtuned (like Domino or Mala were in the past). he is DEFINITELY not overtuned. he is a boss and requires respect (changing gems before a fight is acceptable minimum isnt it?) but he can be done with meh gear and on any build (ive been playing 100% melee builds recently and these are the most susceptible to his burst damage

tips/guide:

- each fight has 3 phases: 2 with lieutenants (special adds) and a final one with what Lieutenants you were not able to deal with
- if your gear/play is meh - you HAVE to deal with lieutenants or the final fight will be very nasty (9 frenzy charges on a boss reeks..)

- adds:
-- golems (kill asap, attack before izaro)
-- curse totems (kill asap, attack before izaro)
-- 'conduit of ELEMENT' (let them all emerge and then click on all of them and then dps izaro down)
-- 'conduit pylons' (ALMOST dps izaro down - then click on a pylon to remove his charges)

you have to deal with adds then 'kill' izaro

if you are poorly geared DO NOT fight ARgus (the 'mini' boss - he is FAR more deadly than izaro himself). he is in a locked room so you have no excuses


bring a decoy totem with you, mind your flasks and youll be fine. he really is not a threat even when doing intoxicated gaming

"

joachimbond wrote:

It's always easier to play the beset peacemaker when your side's the one with the advantage.

Yes, I characterized this issue as 'sided', because GGG wants to divide the Super Mario players from the arpg players.

I HATED Super Mario with a passion. Why bring elements from that type of game into this one?

Ugh. I'm not even angry anymore, i'm just very, very disgusted. All those valuable hours of mine, flushed down the toilet.

And you say crap like "come to peace with it". What sort of reaction do you expect for your sanctimony? a "gee mister, thanks!" with a cheerful smile?

Sorry you see it as sanctimony. I see it more as trying to word things in a way that won't upset people. Because you're clearly already quite upset. But it's cool. I've decided nothing I say will help you.

Bye then! :)