Changes to Past Leagues at Zana

I see some good, and some bad. Let's start with the good:

  • Making Zana mods more affordable is a good thing, so that they're not just an extra currency sink mandated for sustaining high-tier maps... And so that some of those mods get used AT ALL. Seriously, I don't know who bothered with, say, Warbands. It was either roll Onslaught or Ambush (for map drops) or go Nemesis or Anarchy. (for legacies)

Well, I thought I was going to be able to make more than one "good" bullet point. I guess there wasn't anything else to say there!

But on with the bad; pneuma brought up some excellent points, but it goes even further, really:

  • Yes, one of the most-voiced concerns is on how it'll impact Temp leagues, but let's also not forget Standard; GGG themselves mentioned that "More than 100,000 of our players play in permanent leagues as their main leagues and don't play the challenge leagues." Perhaps it might be worth considering how much you mess with the economy there. (I know I'll be stockpiling some uniques to flip!)

  • Some of those other mods, were they balanced, could've been FUN to have. A big one that will be sorely missed out on: Rampage. It served a VERY unique option: pay a little extra to make the map EASIER.

  • Not having Talismans available on any further leagues is a HUGE mistake. GGG, you're basically taking the 6-figure sum you invested on developing the league's content, and throwing it in the trash. I KNOW you've said concerns of "It's great to have all this extra content, but we have to be careful to not repeat it too often," but there's a difference between "balanced" and "Let's just throw it out."

  • Where's the OTHER buff to Zana, like her missions? I was under the impression we'd see a buff to her missions as well, perhaps at least a PARTIAL reverse of the 2.0 nerf of "Level 8 Zana only gives Tier 6-8, instead of Tier 10-12"

  • In all honesty, I feel the decision-making here is being less based upon sound logic, and more on just being what could be characterized as "OCD." One major thing sticking out: the "exactly one mod unlocked per level up." Sure, shift them around as needed to balance them, but why restrict it to one per?

    I feel the same could be said to all this fretting on how to balance new expansion/challenge content being added to the core game: already, you can't, say, encounter Rogue exiles before Brutus on normal, etc. Why not just make Talismans restricted to higher difficulties?
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I keep reading people complaining that the will never get past league uniquie's in limmted leagues agian. please read the oringal post again. they will come back each leagues will just have a set of zana mods. maybe we will get tailmans aviable at rank 2 for 3 chaos in the future. That list was just for the next temp league
This, is, terrible.

I have a suggestion to make this viable.

Add a new map modifier (or replace beyond modifier with this)

"Map has a Random League Modifier"

since its random only (and could even be weighted), the amount of currency spent getting the modifier wont cripple the economy. This allows casual players to experience league style content without shelling out currency they simply don't have, and high-end players to take more (currency) risks to get more varied rewards. This would also allow you to integrate Talisman into Ascension launch without breaking game balance, as you'd have to run a lot of maps to get anywhere significant with the talisman system.

Cmon everyone, cast your vote for this option! let EVERYONE enjoy occasional legacy mechanics, not just those in the top 1% of the currency market!

(Sidenote, why are Anarchy and Torment league even a thing when they got integrated into the core game?)
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"
ACGIFT wrote:

But on with the bad; pneuma brought up some excellent points, but it goes even further, really:

  • Yes, one of the most-voiced concerns is on how it'll impact Temp leagues, but let's also not forget Standard; GGG themselves mentioned that "More than 100,000 of our players play in permanent leagues as their main leagues and don't play the challenge leagues." Perhaps it might be worth considering how much you mess with the economy there. (I know I'll be stockpiling some uniques to flip!)

  • Some of those other mods, were they balanced, could've been FUN to have. A big one that will be sorely missed out on: Rampage. It served a VERY unique option: pay a little extra to make the map EASIER.

  • Not having Talismans available on any further leagues is a HUGE mistake. GGG, you're basically taking the 6-figure sum you invested on developing the league's content, and throwing it in the trash. I KNOW you've said concerns of "It's great to have all this extra content, but we have to be careful to not repeat it too often," but there's a difference between "balanced" and "Let's just throw it out."

  • Where's the OTHER buff to Zana, like her missions? I was under the impression we'd see a buff to her missions as well, perhaps at least a PARTIAL reverse of the 2.0 nerf of "Level 8 Zana only gives Tier 6-8, instead of Tier 10-12"

  • In all honesty, I feel the decision-making here is being less based upon sound logic, and more on just being what could be characterized as "OCD." One major thing sticking out: the "exactly one mod unlocked per level up." Sure, shift them around as needed to balance them, but why restrict it to one per?

    I feel the same could be said to all this fretting on how to balance new expansion/challenge content being added to the core game: already, you can't, say, encounter Rogue exiles before Brutus on normal, etc. Why not just make Talismans restricted to higher difficulties?




  • +1

    Talisman SHOULD be implemented to the core game, 100% and make them more easier to farm. Talisman league was so bad bcs farming them was insane! Don't remove talisman, just make them easier.
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Last edited by TreeOfDead on Feb 29, 2016, 12:33:27 PM
"
Thornstromb wrote:
This, is, terrible.

I have a suggestion to make this viable.

Add a new map modifier (or replace beyond modifier with this)

"Map has a Random League Modifier"

since its random only (and could even be weighted), the amount of currency spent getting the modifier wont cripple the economy. This allows casual players to experience league style content without shelling out currency they simply don't have, and high-end players to take more (currency) risks to get more varied rewards. This would also allow you to integrate Talisman into Ascension launch without breaking game balance, as you'd have to run a lot of maps to get anywhere significant with the talisman system.

Cmon everyone, cast your vote for this option! let EVERYONE enjoy occasional legacy mechanics, not just those in the top 1% of the currency market!

(Sidenote, why are Anarchy and Torment league even a thing when they got integrated into the core game?)


So much this!
And just make it not have the +20% iiq, to balance the cost thing.

Basically a mod for people who want to play past content for fun.
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Worst change ever. I do not care about pricing change etc., but past league mods should be available. I do not even mind losing darkshrines (even though I loved this league, just didn't have much time to play it), but losing talismans is absolutely unacceptable. It's just removing huge pile of content (new item type, new bosses etc.) and a lot of flexibility they offered to builds in a lot of ways (not only through their stats). I do not even care if talismans cost 3 ex like they do now, but I would prefer them to be a part of core game (at least as endgame random map mod like beyond), and I absolutely do not want them to be completely removed from the game.
I was really hyped for this league and expansion but it will be probably last league I played if that remains as is. As of now most of the hype was killed for me by this change and by the map drop rate that basically forces me to run easy maps, because I run out of high tier maps too fast no matter how much currency I sink (e.g. 149/53/29 T15 map with domination and 2 mortal frags and sac frag = 0 drops, 4 curse T14 map which I do not remember exact stats, I think it was ~180/75/54 = 1 T9 drop, similar T13 map = T13 + T2 drop, that happened a lot of times, barely any maps have a positive result).
Limiting endgame is not the way to go. It will only cause faster burnout.
Last edited by DemonikPath on Feb 29, 2016, 7:08:44 PM
Great decisions.

Regardless of subjective speculation that seems to be plaguing a few players, it really is a great decision in regards to the amount of doors open per say. While people somehow claim it is limiting options, that's a rather short-sighted and inept look at how complex systems work.

With an over-saturation of drastically differing unique items & mechanics compiled over so many leagues it becomes a major issue with balancing; in the sense that it becomes a reactive process rather than a proactive process when making changes and developing new content. This design change, along with all of the new content coming in Ascendancy, will allow for an astonishing amount of new dynamic content while being able to make proactive and bold changes; whereas throwing content on top of content would [obviously] lead to debilitating complications and make the game way too saturated.
This changes nothing for me. I would love to roll a map and think about what zana mod to put on it, to make it more interesting. Without making it too rippy. But the fact is that i rather save my chaos for a new build then spend them on abit of fun and a higher chance on getting a +1 map.

I guess it all comes down to me being to greedy with my chaos orbs.



Shame with talismans not being part of the core game.
It's a nice idea, although it sucks that they seemed to have this priced based on item value. Items are hard enough to chance at it is, so you don't need to add to this with higher prices. Nemesis mods aren't worth 1ex, and would be a nice addition to run if the price wasn't that high.
"
subtleorwhat wrote:
It's a nice idea, although it sucks that they seemed to have this priced based on item value. Items are hard enough to chance at it is, so you don't need to add to this with higher prices. Nemesis mods aren't worth 1ex, and would be a nice addition to run if the price wasn't that high.


Can agree on part that mods should be cheaper, like so ppl USE them more often and check older league.

But removing Talisman or even adding to Zana... looks like so bad decision, like WTF?
And limiting Zana mods also super bad, whats happend with GGG? They change so many and add so low.
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