Thoughts on trading's place in ARPGs

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Argedava wrote:

Here`s how trade is now in a new league. A few rush to get top items which a few spam on trade channels for the few ones which have bought exalts.
Just like a rotten apple it has few but fat worms. In their twisted view they "keep the economy alive".
They profit from the restictive way the trading works, requireing time, and further choke the already restricted market. Trying to buy a mid level item is a waste af time for example.

Well, I don't think that "requiring time" and being online all the time is a display of true skill or anything. That's why the opening post focuses on trying to remove the trader-versus-interface difficulty — most importantly the need to be online simultaneously with a person to trade with them — and hopes to preserve as much trader-versus-trader difficulty as possible (or increase it if possible). To the maximum extent possible, trading should be difficult in terms of properly pricing items and knowing the market, not simply who can no-life it hardest.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Argedava wrote:

Here`s how trade is now in a new league. A few rush to get top items which a few spam on trade channels for the few ones which have bought exalts.
Just like a rotten apple it has few but fat worms. In their twisted view they "keep the economy alive".
They profit from the restictive way the trading works, requireing time, and further choke the already restricted market. Trying to buy a mid level item is a waste af time for example.

Well, I don't think that "requiring time" and being online all the time is a display of true skill or anything. That's why the opening post focuses on trying to remove the trader-versus-interface difficulty — most importantly the need to be online simultaneously with a person to trade with them — and hopes to preserve as much trader-versus-trader difficulty as possible (or increase it if possible). To the maximum extent possible, trading should be difficult in terms of properly pricing items and knowing the market, not simply who can no-life it hardest.

You are complicating things too much. Trading should be as free as possible. That`s the real issue. I personally don`t really care if i sell an item at half the market price to anyone as long as i can do it fast. Or if i pay doulbe for what i need at a particular moment if i can get it than.
At this moment i can`t. I can only contemplate a list of 50 exalts worth items on display. Same ones for weeks.

Bump for asynchronous trade.

Just got into a seller, ask to buyout price, next thing I know is he rather play Poe than answering me. Wait like 15mins and no response. ( Should I go 24/7 for response?)

I recall the last time I am trying to buy a Vertex Mask, it took me 1 month to actually meet the guy where both of us is online at the same time.

Is this the kind of trading u want? I am actually surprise by a couple of no-lifers here trying so hard to defend against asynchronous trade. You play 16hours a day for Poe is it?

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Darkkrows wrote:

Just got into a seller, ask to buyout price, next thing I know is he rather play Poe than answering me. Wait like 15mins and no response. ( Should I go 24/7 for response?)

I recall the last time I am trying to buy a Vertex Mask, it took me 1 month to actually meet the guy where both of us is online at the same time.

Is this the kind of trading u want? I am actually surprise by a couple of no-lifers here trying so hard to defend against asynchronous trade. You play 16hours a day for Poe is it?

Can you stop with the ignorant accusation that only no-lifers like the idea of non automated trading? In terms of asynchronous I think almost anyone is ok with a very limited mail box like system where it still requires multiple steps in order to complete a transaction.

Secondly can you stop with the claim that it takes 16 hours of playtime a day to trade in PoE, unless you are playing in regular HC (you are not) you shouldn't have an issue trying to find ANY common or relatively common unique that you want. For reference I did a search for buyout only for that mask, online only at this moment in standard 99+ results. You can't honestly tell me you messaged 99+ people and they all weren't there.



Perhaps to bring up another point, unique items are really cheap these days. In HC temp league its 2ex, in SC one its 1ex and you can likely get it cheaper then that. Thats just 1 unqiue, but compare the prices of unqiues after the buff to T1 drop rates from tempest pre buff and now and its like anyone that doesn't spend all the fusing\jewelers and alts they get when leveling can get 1-2 T1 uniques just with that currency.

Which leads me to believe that trading has become less and less important in PoE, I would hate to see it be completely irrelevant, part of the reason why I liked PoE was the fact you had to work to get those desirable uniques to do fun builds, but I got a almost perfect roll searing touch for 10 chaos last week. There were leagues when that weapon was worth 5+ exalts. Overall I'm not happy with the itemization that PoE has made and a fully automated system would cheapen the system, yet again which only seems to be to appeal to "casual players"

GGG needs to remember how they got here, it wasn't appealing to casual players, they need to be careful when going forward I know a lot of players dislike recent actions\direction they are showing.

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grant_m wrote:

How many people in the temp leagues would you say have found 1 or 2 exalted orbs yet?

Pure exalt(s), not sure, but the total value of what they've accumulated probably a good amount of players.

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goetzjam wrote:

can you stop with the claim that it takes 16 hours of playtime a day to trade in PoE, unless you are playing in regular HC (you are not) you shouldn't have an issue trying to find ANY common or relatively common unique that you want. For reference I did a search for buyout only for that mask, online only at this moment in standard 99+ results. You can't honestly tell me you messaged 99+ people and they all weren't there.

No, but more likely than not the lowest buyout listed on poe.trade was half the price of the lowest buyout which was not only listed as currently online, but actually responding instead of getting some /afk message.

If the argument here is "buyers have to pay above market price if they're not online all of the time," well, goetz doesn't seem to agree and I don't agree either. The sellers who are never online and list their items cheap do not represent market prices, in our online-only system sellers are smart enough to compete primarily with other online sellers and will price their items against online sellers, not offline sellers.

On the other hand, "sellers have to sell below market price if they're not online all of the time" is completely accurate, because if you can't nolife it hard enough to have a continuously available shop, you need to sell cheap so that when a buyer is interested in your item you're at the top of the poe.trade list. Otherwise the item simply won't move. Thus, the current situation is that buyers are assumed to be casuals (which is in fitting with the ideals of trading in this thread), while sellers are assumed to be nolife map grinders (which is mostly fitting, except for the "nolife" part).

Asynchronosity would help a lot, because as I've said to morbo, trade is expected to be able to sustain currency for high-level mapping (which, again, is a good thing on a base concept level), and as the game design is right now it feels like trading is just fine from a purely buyer perspective, but to really break into selling you need to commit a huge amount of time into this game, which essentially cuts off players from high-level mapping unless they have the spare time to be online almost continuously.

Basically, if you aren't typing things like "/afk brb eating," then you're probably not high mapping. Is that what we really want?

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grant_m wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

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grant_m wrote:

How many people in the temp leagues would you say have found 1 or 2 exalted orbs yet?

Pure exalt(s), not sure, but the total value of what they've accumulated probably a good amount of players.

But people won't take accumulation. they want the exalted orbs. What then?

Then you have the situation like every SC league ever where the chaos to exalt ratio climbs to extremely stupid ratios. Not saying its "ok" but this problem isn't as extreme in the HC temp leagues because there isn't as many people being uptight about it.


However, in terms of not accepting pure, if mjolner is worth 1ex and an ex is 70-75 chaos (idk what it is there atm) then simply paying some value over that going ratio will get you the item from someone.


Not to mention I don't necessarily see your point here, people need fuses, alts and jewelers in temp leagues those can be sold to players in masses for pure exalts.

Doesn't change the fact that T1 uniques being more common is truly sad and makes players that can play "a lot" burned out by the fact that they can complete a character fairly quickly, even in HC.