Blade Vortex needs a big nerf! (because of double-dip, triple-dip and quadruple-dip)

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Aim_Deep wrote:

It's not that strong. My SuperNova build is way stronger center on caster type a spell. And I have like 16K DPS in my Blade Vortex build in sig. Overrated Franky. You never played OP builds before to say Blade vortex is OP.

Solid builds as always - people really should take a closer look at your builds more often!

I'm sorry but... I don't buy it. They ran out of time? How long does it take, exactly, to lower a skill's damage by 15%? 20%? Does each percent take a day or something? Do they have to climb some mystical mountain and dump a bag of gold coins before the gods, asking for their blessing in changing the skill damage?

I'm sorry for being an ass, but I think they leave these things in on purpose. Every single league has a skill like this. Spork. Flameblast. Incinerate. SRS. Probably a few others I completely forgot about.

And it is the type of stuff that is obvious. It isn't convoluted and creative like that mirror arrow build was. A lot of this stuff gets caught by Alpha so it isn't that GGG isn't aware or something.

It has to be deliberate.

inb4 "you are wrong, they just can't know about all skill interactions" (totally ignoring what Charan just said, of course)

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I_NO wrote:

Oh here we go again.

Here we fucking go again.

now , now... lets not act like we all did not see this coming....


plus i know deep down , you just want your srs back and only give maybe half a toss about this new skill.....

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silumit wrote:

inb4 "you are wrong, they just can't know about all skill interactions" (totally ignoring what Charan just said, of course)

noted, still gona talk about it because i am bored...

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ggnorekthx wrote:

I'm sorry but... I don't buy it. They ran out of time? How long does it take, exactly, to lower a skill's damage by 15%? 20%? Does each percent take a day or something? Do they have to climb some mystical mountain and dump a bag of gold coins before the gods, asking for their blessing in changing the skill damage?

I'm sorry for being an ass, but I think they leave these things in on purpose. Every single league has a skill like this. Spork. Flameblast. Incinerate. SRS. Probably a few others I completely forgot about.

And it is the type of stuff that is obvious. It isn't convoluted and creative like that mirror arrow build was. A lot of this stuff gets caught by Alpha so it isn't that GGG isn't aware or something.

It has to be deliberate.

identifying an issue is often easy, figuring out how too fix it? that can be messy...

You know all the ravings behind trump's idea to build i giant wall between america and mexico seems pretty simple .... until you start to realize all the hoops and shit you have to jump through before you can build the bloody wall...


same concept here. it is not about a 15% or a 20% or a 30% damage increase /decrease because the issue is not necessarily JUST over all damage.

maybe its the interactions between rapid poison stacks
maybe its the shadow double dip nodes...
maybe its all the scaling the op mentioned...
maybe it was the duration...

This is exactly why ggg still hasn't been able to nail down the balance for srs after what ? 5 - 6 -7? tries? because it is just not that simple.

scaling too well is a legitimate concern. if you have too many scaling sources and balance just damage then you are intrinsically making those scaling sources mandatory for the skill to work. This can break many builds that dont want or even have access to all those sources.

for srs it was being able to get duration, cast speed, aura effect and have enough dex to cheese it all with hastes and vaal hastes (while also not actually needing to invest in minion durability....). but normal srs builds that omitted some of those mechanics could be dramatically different... (notice i did not mention damage at all there)

So ill say again, not that simple.

Pretty much everything scales off the base physical, including the poison damage. So nerfing the base physical is indeed a simple solution. I'm not saying it would be 100% balanced, but 20% less base damage would at least leave in a slightly more balanced form until they can find a more complicated solution to the bigger picture.

Looking at it and saying "Wow that's a lot of interaction! Let's do nothing!" is the worst possible solution.

Much of this goes for any Physical spell - EK and Bladefall included, but also shockwave totem.

Essentially, Physical is easy to scale with other things too, like added fire or Hatred. So poison isn't the only avenue.


Happy build crafting!

It was pretty obvious from early on that Blade Vortex will get "adjusted".

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Astarte911 wrote:

On a more serious node: ALL skills in PoE that are used in close range are A LOT stronger then range skills.

In what universe?

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Aim_Deep wrote:

It's not that strong. My SuperNova build is way stronger center on caster type a spell. And I have like 16K DPS in my Blade Vortex build in sig. Overrated Franky. You never played OP builds before to say Blade vortex is OP.

And you clearly don't even understand what op means.

Well it does feel strong... but weaker than Flame Totem.

1. It does actually put you at risk, which was not the case with Flame Totem
2. It is only really good as a shadow you can't just make any character, put it on and win you have to invest into it, which was different with Flame Totem
3. It is an activ skill that prohibits you from doing something else, again Flame Totem just gave any build the required damage and distraction to level, while they could still use their regular stuff

There are also other limitations, exspecially with the fact that it is a physical spell and poison only scales with physical and chaos damage, so Hatred, the added spell damage on weapons or Herald of Ash/Added Fire only increase the base damage, while Flame Totem just worked well with its decent damage effectiveness.

It is a strong skill exspecially with the poison interaction and the new shadow start if you invest into it. It is not just a strong skill.

I'm more concerned actually what a Blade Vortex/Cwdt/Blade Fall/Power Charge on Crit setup does for Melees, since it is basically a very easy way to provide Power Charges.

An considering Flame Totem didn't require immediate action I doubt that Blade Vortex needs it. It will likely get looked at when the leagues end and considering Ascendancy changes a lot balance likely does as well.

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Emphasy wrote:

I'm more concerned actually what a Blade Vortex/Cwdt/Blade Fall/Power Charge on Crit setup does for Melees, since it is basically a very easy way to provide Power Charges.

Yes, because we melees need tons of power charges..... oh wait.......

fast attacking phys source scales very well with both flat and % elemental sources but nerfing the base damage its a bad idea, mostly becouse it kills any build that is not based around stacking those elemental sources.

what about doing what they did with skeletons? that "deals x less elemental damage" would solve the problem without screwing with those who are playing full physical damage or phys/poison.