Ascendancy classes - suggestion

I'll preface this by saying beyond the news posts, I've not read much into the upcoming expansion or threads about it, so I apologize if this suggestion has already been mentioned or discussed.

At the moment, my understanding is the sub-classes are only available to the parent class (aka Shadow is the only class with access to "Assassin"). Thematically, this makes sense. From a balance perspective, this makes sense. I've seen some suggestions of having all sub-classes available to any character, but with the player being penalized in some way for choosing non-primary sub-classes.

My suggestion is this: by traveling to another character's starting nodes, have said character's sub-classes became available to the original character?

Off the top of my head, this would help alleviate two concerns while keeping in line thematically and providing a less direct penalty.

Concern #1) Wanting to play a specific character for thematic reasons. While this does often lead to sacrificing efficiency, it has always been possible to do this. Any unique options (keystones, gems, items, etc.) are technically available to any character in the current iteration of PoE. The currently described format of Ascendancy classes does change that.

Concern #2) Respecing characters. Again, while this may not be the most efficient option (vs simply starting a new character from scratch), it would provide players wanting to respec with the possibility to still get what they want out of said character without having to put in the time to COMPLETELY start over their character. Lots of us are "altaholics," but not everyone is.

Additionally, it could lead to some pretty cool builds that might not be possible otherwise. There's usually a pretty big cost associated with traveling across the entire tree, but there have been many builds in the past that have proven it can certainly be worthwhile sometimes.

I realize there are other concerns out there that this would not specifically address, but I feel like this is a pretty mild suggestion that would not completely undermine GGG's goals of the Ascendancy classes (not that I claim to know what their goals are, just basing this on my own assumptions). Let me know your thoughts!

I really, really like this idea. There indeed seem to be a significant number of people wanting to play specific classes for reasons unrelated to pure efficiency, and this throws them a bone while barely impacting balance. My only worry is that it might cause more Scion parties for people who are min-maxing.

Shouldn't this be in "Feedback and SUGGESTIONS"?

It's been brought up a few times. The main argument put forth against the idea is that it dilutes/eliminates the primary function of an Ascendancy class, which is to make the choice of which character class you play actually matter. While someone not liking/wanting to play a given class is certainly valid, allowing any class to allocate any Ascendancy they like for the simple cost of a handful of passive points means we're right back where we started - class selection becomes meaningless and does not impact your build at all. What should be one of the most important choices you make regarding a new character ends up being a choice of early-game cosmetics and which voice pack you like the best.

Several interviewers have stated that GGG is introducing Ascendancies specifically to get away from classes-as-cosmetic-voicepacks. I'm not sure why they'd go back on that, when it does pose some pretty serious balance risks and also means that eighty percent of all characters created will still be Scions.

"

Shagsbeard wrote:

Shouldn't this be in "Feedback and SUGGESTIONS"?

Potentially. I'm looking to get some discussion out of it since I have a tendency of firing off "good ideas" with lots of holes in them I initially overlooked. If deemed more fitting for that sub-forum, I'm sure a member of support will move it accordingly.

Was somebody asking for a devil's advocate?

/poef

Your first two argumentations, which have indeed been repeated in other threads are non-existent arguments.
That is to say, they hold relevance on a personal preference level, but beyond that they hold no tangible ground to facilitate this change.

Examples :

- i don't like the templar because he doesn't wear pants
- i don't like the scion cause i am a male and i dont play females
- marauder is an ugly mofo

To which the logical response is -> Grow up.(blunt, but direct)


Your last argumentation is a fallacy and non-existent.
"more builds could be discovered this way"

How exactly? If every starting point gave access to the sub-classes corresponding to it, how exactly does this facilitate any new builds when compared for example with, just starting as that class to begin with?

Now, to go a bit further and offer a counter-argumentation to the proposal.

It would shift the meta to scion as master-race, yet again. This would happen because suddenly scion is the closest to any and all starting position at the lowest possible travel cost.(while providing generalist bonuses and jewel sockets to boot)

As such, she would facilitate any and all meta builds at the lowest respec cost possible.

This would undermine the whole intention of the concept.

Further more, it detracts from class identity as a whole. It's the limitation that will provide an identity, you will see a shadow and know "ah that dude has x/x and x available as a sub-class", how is he dealing with that and what is he abusing in his particular build.
It's the notion of picking a character to ultimately enhance your build that is of importance, which currently is not the case.

/tips hat

Peace,

-Boem-

edit : typo
edit2 : added a spoiler
edit3 : LeeeeeL shags. Salt.

Guess I'm just a bit salty because one of my posts with a similar "discussion" got moved within minutes this morning. I was looking for discussion too. But I guess I don't have the same border you do.

I have no problem with this. Once you tag the starting node the class ought to become available. All it really does is allow a different char skin. No reason not to do this and lots of players will be happy to play an elementalist who doesnt look like a pantless perv/

No need to travel to other class strting area to choose another Ascendancy.
Just let us choose one. For freeeeedom!

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1483518