My bits on Ascendancy classes + the best solution I have seen proposed so far

So yeah. I'm always fond of sub-classes and specialisations, and Ascendancy was no exception when I first saw it. I mean, what's not to like about having more options to customise your build? Everything about it is amazing... except for the fact that it is class-locked. This is a first in PoE. NOTHING else in the ENTIRE game is class-specific. Provided you have the necessary (usually attribute) requirements, you can technically use anything on any class, and provided you spend the necessary points, you can get to any part of the skilltree from any starting point.

I don't see why Ascendancy classes should be any exception to this rule. In fact, I think it would be detrimental to the game if they were to be an exception. I saw somewhere (I think it was on reddit, I can't find it now) a post where somebody proposed that connecting to the starting point of any class should give you access to their ascendancy class trees provided you haven't chosen one of your own already. That is a solution which is very elegant and smart, while also making a lot of sense - you have to pay extra in order to get access to something which you think would be more optimal, making weighing the choices an interesting decision.

My other complaint is the fact that the Scion only gets one Ascendancy. I know it has not been revealed yet, but it will need to have a LOT more options than the other classes get per Ascendancy, otherwise all Scions will end up playing basically one out of the three or four builds that benefit from her Ascendancy (especially if we aren't given the option to go into other classes' Ascendancies). I have like more than 10 Scions in the 70+ range, all completely different builds - and I'm sure that, unless I'm given the option to chose from Duelist or Shadow or Witch Ascendancies, I'm gonna have to delete them and re-level every build on a new class - which I definitely am not gonna do, and it will probably cause me to not want to play if I'm forced into it. Which, is, I think, stupid compared to introducing this small fix giving the ability to choose from ANY ascendancy for the right cost.

Let's wait to see the problem before we start suggesting solution... ok?

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Shagsbeard wrote:

Let's wait to see the problem before we start suggesting solution... ok?

I've already outlined my projected problems, but it seems you are only capable of reading titles. Makes for high-quality shitposting.

If we make all the sub classes available to every character then we will again be stucking using only Scion. You obviously aren't seeing the problem with 90% of the players choosing to play scion just because of the jewel nodes. At the current state of the game there is no reason to use Templar,Shadow or Duelist simply because their starting nodes are inneficient. Providing specific sub classses creates a bigger reason behind rolling those classes. If we would use this proposition the meta would NOT change at all and we would be left with simply more power creep. There is no problem, you're just scared of change.

So as Shagsbeard said, lets wait for a problem to surface before we think of fixes.

It's an interesting idea, but we're definitely going to need to see all the ascendancies before we start worrying.

And we'll definitely need to see the scion's ascendancy before we talk about it restricting her builds.

An interesting thing you can do since we've seen all three of the duelist's current ascendancies is to try and think of a build that would receive no benefit from any of them.

Just to be clear, it seems a decent solution, but it might turn out that there's no problem to actually need a solution.

So, you are proposing a solution for a problem that I cannot see.

Ignoring the Scion, there is, well, pretty much nothing you can do with your proposal that you cannot do without. Give or take a few starting stat points, and maybe the levelling process, there is no difference between travelling to another classes starting point and just taking that class. So what's the point?

Scion is a different case because you can branch into three different directions, so there actually are builds that go from Scion, reach the Witch starting point, and cannot be done with a Witch. Then again, it does seem to me that they did want to nerf Scions a bit, which got a comparatively huge buff in 2.0 because of the Jewel slots.

So, your suggestion is effectively a buff to the scion and irrelevant for the other classes. I am not convinced Scion needs a buff, but I guess we will see when the Scion ascendancy is revealed.

Besides that, I don't really like your suggestion, but yeah, wait and see.

"

PrimordialDarkness wrote:

NOTHING else in the ENTIRE game is class-specific...
I don't see why Ascendancy classes should be any exception to this rule...

Thank god they finally introduce some meaning to your class. Why it should be an exception? Because it is the best idea they ever had! I think this will become the best poe expansion since the first closed beta.

The difference is that not everyone wants to start 15+ characters from scratch just because of this change.

Sure, if we all had 0 characters and had to pick and choose, with full knowledge of what every Ascendancy can do, then there would be no problem.

But that's not the case. There are many people who have already set up and running builds on various classes. Those builds now become insanely inefficient unless you've rolled the correct class to choose the best sub-class for them. This means you're either forced to roll up to lvl 80+ with a new toon, or play a worse version of the same build, getting punished because you started playing before 2.1. That seems absolutely retarded.

So for example, my max block Scion now needs to be a Duelist, so I'm either forced to reroll or keep running with a worse version of the same build.

So yeah, if I was a person who only plays temp leagues, I would see no problem either. But I'm not, and people who only play temp leagues are not the ONLY people who play PoE. The others get screwed hard by this update (once again, seems to be a recurring trend that if you play SC you will get screwed every few months) unless they're offered either 1) a one off class change or 2) a way to go into off-class Ascendancies from their current class.

Non creative people think their builds will be broken. Everybody else sees the possibilities to make their builds more unique. There will not be a build that can't benefit from an "off class" ascendency. Mark has even explained some of the flexibility that people are too narrow minded to see for themselves....like many nodes that say one or two handers don't specify "melee" so they include bows and wands. Maybe give it a chance before you invent possible problems that need solutions.

I really don't see the need for a solution at all. Class identity will be fantastic, and the ability to have specialized builds with certain classes will be epic. Odd niche builds will still have their place, and off-class builds will too. Every class will have a subclass that has some kind of use for your snowflake build (a jack-of-all-trades ascendancy, if you will).

What's funny is that making off-class builds was never the way to make GG ROFLstomping builds, it was just an exercise in imagination. For example: You can make a CoC marauder now, but it won't be as good as a CoC shadow would be. With the juggernaut subclass, however, you can get a ton of accuracy and endurance charge generation (and freeze immunity!!!) to make it work better than it would. Would the assassin subclass of shadow work better? Of course! But what matters is that the CoC marauder would work far better in Ascendancy than it would now. Ascendancy is adding a lot to make off-class builds even more unique while also buffing them considerably.

I'm pleasantly surprised that scion only gets one ascendancy, and I think that's a great decision on GGG's part. Scion shouldn't be the go-to character for almost any build- it should be a rounded build that has access to all parts of the tree in equal measure (right now it has much greater access to jewels, which gives it a large advantage). I think its ascendancy will include stats or something special that will provide some benefit to every possible build through generic modifiers or even additional jewel slots. Regardless, OP's scion characters will be getting a buff with the scion ascendancy, no matter what it turns out to be. Will they be the best character for that specific build? Probably not anymore, which is GOOD. Will they be better than they currently are? Yes, depending on what changes to the skill tree are implemented (this has nothing to do with subclasses, however).