Why does the "FORTIFY" skill gem exists?

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Boem wrote:

The misconception is that fortify was added to make melee stronger.

In my opinion, it was not, it was added to make ranged weaker. Melee is left in a similar spot to
pre-awakening, while ranged are definitely feeling the hits now if they endure one.

The problem i see is that fortify eats up a slot in melee links thus also signifying somewhat of a nerf.

Remove it from the link system and make it inherent to melee and it will have attained it's function of making ranged comparably weaker to melee.

I think you could be right with the first part, but in practice only when it comes to archers. Casters have largely adapted by using Whirling Blades + Fortify. Remove the Fortify gem and make it intrinsic to melee hits, and you only nerf archers (and certain non-meta casters), assuming they don't weapon swap. But freeing up a gem slot would be nice.

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qquno wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

It isnt neccesary for melee, its just beneficial to the point where you would virtually always use it

Could you clarify this blatant nonsense?

I clear red tier maps on melee builds without ever bothering to active fortify, hence it isnt necessary. I have it linked in a second skill I can activate it with anyway because its really good, why wouldnt I?

Glad I could clear that up for you.

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Argedava wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

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Argedava wrote:

Is it to allow greater customisation?
Or is it that they needed to adress some basic flaw of the gamebalance and needed a gem to make a difference from ranged to melee? Therefore allowing a "great diversity" in which Fortify becomes a must, closing the circle of ignoring the real problem.

its not ignoring the real problem, its solving the real problem in the best way you can solve the problem.

Its not mandatory to use it in your melee attack, anyone saying that doesnt know what theyre talking about.

fortify is great, it does exactly what needed done in a better way than any other suggestion I have seen. It isnt neccesary for melee, its just beneficial to the point where you would virtually always use it, and that was exactly what it was designed to be and exactly what the game needed.

Congratulations!
You just delivered the final piece of the puzzle needed to make me a real player:

- The game is perfectly balanced!

Other credits:
- Manuality is the rule! At least in bossfights where "manually dodging" is a must
- Constantlty and inteligently spamming the perfect combo of potions at the precise ms is an absolute must
- Paying attention to the interactions betwen monster mods and map mods while swaping the equipement and flasks acordingly
Once you master these you complete any dificulty "with ease".

And here-s what i do:
I dont play this game!

sorry that you feel that having to actually play the game is something that makes you not want to play the game, thats quite a strange situation you have found yourself in. Maybe stick to board games?

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Finkenstein wrote:

Fortify should have been designed for 2h melee only. Why is it clunky? It is clunky because it forces a gem slot which forces higher need for 6l's.

it doesnt force you to use it in your main attack. Using it in your main skill is lazy, if you want to be lazy, you pay a gem slot in your main attack to be so.




If they added enduring cry to the game right now people would say everything they are saying about fortify, omg its mandatory, omg its so broken it shouldnt be in the game, blah blah.

Hi

Snorkle_uk

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If they added enduring cry to the game right now people would say everything they are saying about fortify, omg its mandatory, omg its so broken it shouldnt be in the game, blah blah.

Isn't enduring cry in the game already?, and isn't basically mandatory to get endurance charges?, while power/frenzy charges have easier ways to cultivate charges.

cheers

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Finkenstein wrote:

Isn't enduring cry in the game already?, and isn't basically mandatory to get endurance charges?

Enduring Cry is not the only way to get Endu Charges, there's also Warlord's Mark, EC on Melee Hit, and Voll's Devotion.

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Boem wrote:

The misconception is that fortify was added to make melee stronger.

In my opinion, it was not, it was added to make ranged weaker. Melee is left in a similar spot to
pre-awakening, while ranged are definitely feeling the hits now if they endure one.

I agree with this.

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Finkenstein wrote:

Hi

Snorkle_uk

"

If they added enduring cry to the game right now people would say everything they are saying about fortify, omg its mandatory, omg its so broken it shouldnt be in the game, blah blah.

Isn't enduring cry in the game already?, and isn't basically mandatory to get endurance charges?, while power/frenzy charges have easier ways to cultivate charges.

cheers

yes its in the game, and where are the "no mandatory anything should exist anywhere" crew making threads about removing enduring cry? Probably off playing builds using melee phys or spell echo gems I guess? Using life pots, taking life nodes, you know, doing things that are really niche.

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RogueMage wrote:

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Finkenstein wrote:

Isn't enduring cry in the game already?, and isn't basically mandatory to get endurance charges?

Enduring Cry is not the only way to get Endu Charges, there's also Warlord's Mark, EC on Melee Hit, and Voll's Devotion.

yep. Same way we have vig strike and then a fortified main skill or a fortified movement skill or a fortified utility attack, a mechanic with multiple ways to activate it one of which is a support gem than can turn any melee hit skill into a defensive buff activator.



I dont mean to be flippant guys, Im sry if Im coming off "heres my quick point like a stab in the kidney". I just really think this is a very healthy thing for the game done in a very healthy way and it makes me sad and exhausted to see this reaction to it. Melee, they all can get it via a range of acceptable sacrifices, some spell builds that live in melee range can get it while they remain there deserving it and the only truly lonely bridesmaid at this wedding are bow characters... who happen to be literally the most survivable option in the game right now in spite of all this.

In my eyes thats a triumph, hats off to GGG, I think its an example of them at their best and Im very happy about it. But I love you all regardless of the fact you are wrong (come on, its a joke, work with me here gents) so I dont mean to inspire a slightly confrontational edged dialogue about fortify, and I apologize if thats how I came across.

It was never about "Fortify" itself.
"Fortify" is a symptom, like trying to fix a broken car by adding a horse to it.

My problem is that the game started like a RPG and ended in somethimg like:

My 3k life 300k damage hero is defeating the 5000k life 10k damage boss by constantly dodgeing it`s atacks. Or as someone said "monsters&players oneshooting eachother"

Some call this a "triumph" or "perfection".
I call it pathetic.

the EC comparison is strangely both on and off the point.

on one hand, it's a good argument that fortify on the auxilary attack is relatively optional in term of playstyle.

so its not really 'mandatory' per se. the right term I guess would be 'highly encouraged'

but here's where EC and fortify differ:

why isn't EC considered 'mandatory' ?
well, what are properties of EC?

1. first of all, its a separate skill which you have to stop and cast
2. the main benefit you get from it is % phys reduction
3. is investment-free but #2 is capped by # of echarges, so usually 12% phys reduction
4. the extra res you get are nice when leveling before a4 cruel and maaaybe in maps with ele weakness where you're not overcapped completely(not really recommended but doable). so basically not useful once in maps.
5. EC is limited by area of the skill and number of monsters around you.

the main problem is getting 3 charges for 10 seconds while having to stop and cast before a pack is a turn-off for the majority for the playerbase. imo, subjectively its kinda telling of the playerbase, but lets keep it objective for now.

why did everyone use EC on CWDT ? because it was devoid of #1, and thus really free (and interaction with IC). it automatically cast EC and you got charges.

ok, well, how is fortify different ?

1. first, it's 'highly encouraged' by its sweet value of the buff. it's nearly double the phys reduction value of 3 ECs and it's actually against any kind of damage, be it elemental or chaos as long as it's not degen
2. second, its not an active skill- vigilant strike is one, and...nobody ever uses it from the majority of playerbase.
3. it is limited by hitting a monster, any monster (accuracy counts, of course)

so really, fortify has a huge advantage in that in can be linked to a movement/auxiliary skill and provides a much bigger benefit than EC. EC would still probably be 'mandatory' if people would be able to trigger it without self-casting (laziness ftw), even though a large part of its popularity was IC. free charges of any kind are just...good in a game like poe where it's very stingy to get free stuff (and that's the way it should be imo)

you dont have to actually proc fortify in the way you cast EC. you just move around and it's activated. it's free, it's very powerful and all it requires is a melee weapon and an auixilary skill like WB or leap slam that most do use for moving. what if you could trigger EC with a support gem and get charges just by whirling blading through a crowd ? who wouldn't use that ?