Nerf Ancestral Bond - it should have a downside
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I think the OP paints a generally true picture of the FT leveling experience, while at the same time I agree with those saying totems really become lacklustre in high maps. These aren't contradictory statements; totems start off extremely strong (making them great for leveling) and lose steam rather steadily, until by the time you get to high maps they're probably underpowered.
That said, I don't feel like Ancestral Bond is particularly overpowered itself, because speccing into it might be temporarily strong, but you pretty much know you're going to eventually Regret it (literally). If you're deliberately spending points you know you'll spec out of later for temporary power, I think that's good gameplay, not an overpowered feature. In essence, FT is PoE's noob tube. And noob tubes are actually good design, giving low-skill players a method to compete (somewhat) with the big dogs, but ensuring they'll eventually drop it for something more appropriate. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Oct 22, 2015, 1:04:37 AM
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" I'm comparing self-cast against totems. Maybe leech is great for melee but that's not very relevant. If you've found out a way to make leech good for casters, I'm excited to hear about it. Dropping an exalt on a Doryani belt just for some tiny bit of elemental leech doesn't strike me as very appealing. The overall point I'm making is loss of leech is pretty irrelevant when deciding whether to cast your spells with a totem or not, while totems have a huge defensive bonus currently not offset by any other game mechanic. Playing SWT on mid-tier maps goes something like: 1. cast totem at edge of screen, it freezes all the enemies and stuns them 2. run up next to the totem, at center of the frozen pack, cast second totem ahead of you while first totem kills mob you're close to 3. go to #1 For actually dangerous packs, you stand far far back and spam totems at the edge of the screen until they die. Or maybe they're fast so hit a quicksilver and run away, casting totems behind you, until the AI stops targeting you. EZ. |
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i agree with OP, @grepman above summarized my thoughts exactly
leech is not a downside - summoners also do not have leech and is that a problem? minions (just like you know, totems) shield you most of the time and for the sporadic hits, flasks are there to be used. totem builds DO NOT become UP in high-maps. if anything it is the safety of totem builds that makes high maps easier for them and the damage is there. SWT or inci-totems are pretty damn sick currently the downside of the Ancestral Bond is just a fluff that has little REAL impact. placing totems, cursing and movement take like 95% of the time so there is little dps-waste it is likely that this one will get a serious downside, GGG did that with Ondar's so why not here |
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" I can imagine the serious downside being some thing along the line like "if all totems die simultaneously , you die along with them." I do not think this will ever happen, but just nerfing the damage or health of totems under AB will only slow down the clear time, and still does not solve the whole spamming of totems the edge of the screen until everything is dead. Will make the whole experience of allocating to the keystone pointless. As for Ondar's Guile, that one was a bonafide notable node. If you had plenty of evasion, allocating to it was a given since there was plenty of benefits. Nowadays, I am better off not having Ondar in any of my evasion build since projectiles is not an issue, attacks and spells are. To be honest, I never really needed Ondar for any of my evasion build characters, but since it had no drawback, and the benefits were there just to add even more layers of defense, I was like why not. Sometimes you can take the game out of the garage but you can't take the garage out of the game. - raics, 06.08.2016 Last edited by JohnNamikaze#6516 on Oct 22, 2015, 2:39:50 AM
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"You have the wrong culprit in your OP. Here you're just pointing the fact that 2.0 changes once again screwed self casters. Those changes weren't necessary. No matter what GGG does, top players will reach level 100 in a matter of days. And meanwhile build viability at higher levels is severely hampered for your average player, because of the imperative of survivability. Ranger builds list: /917964
When two witches watch two watches, which witch watches which watch? If the witches watching watches watch the same watch while you watch which witch watches which watch, they switch watches; then, the watch switching witches watch which watch you watch. Watching witches watch watches is not for the faint of heart... |
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" I mean, I won't say you're wrong here... Self-casting is tough. But reverting those changes seems enormously unlikely, and I generally like the added difficulty increase. I just don't think some category of builds should get a free out to dodge it :) " Not opposed to the idea, my suggestion was intended as a slightly more toned-down version of this. Both add to the "bond" element of Ancestral Bond, which I think is what's missing from the keystone now. Last edited by ThanatoZGaming#6817 on Oct 22, 2015, 3:48:42 AM
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incinerate totems shouldn't be given as example of anything. incinerate is OP so anything/anyone using it would be just as OP. there are skills that are just barely worth putting on a totem.
any re-balance of Ancestral Bond is a major issue. if you balanced it around FT, SWT and inc.totem you screw up everything else. spell totem and ranged attack totems already have nerfs on themselves - 30% less cast/attack speed and 50% to 31% less damage. you'd kill any early totem build that plans on using those. if you plan on any damage sharing between totems and user, you'd have to give the user leech because you just have to. the user would take 2x totem damage + damage taken by himself. that's not survivable. the overall problem is that the game became a little to fast and there's just no way you could have most of the skills on par as far as the speed goes. Last edited by kreca73#1653 on Oct 22, 2015, 4:29:30 AM
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" So if it is "mandatory" to easily stay alive, why isn't everyone on HC using it? Last time I checked, the top ladder player in HC (and SC) was a PA build. I am not sure how many totem builds are in the top 20 in the 1month HC event? Other than that, if all totems die at the same time you die again -> would make using totems completely useless because of things like Malachai slam and exploding strongboxes. You could add a third totem, which would make totems stronger in most cases and produce those random, frustrating RIPs. I don't think that is a good idea. Then again, I don't think totems are OP in the first place, so... Remove Horticrafting station storage limit.
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" thats a complete false assumption: other than YOU, your totems can NOT move to avoid getting hit! You, as a ranged char (which a totem build mainly is) take MUCH LESS damage then the 100% of totem's incoming damage... " Totems would need a LOT more defensive/tanky options to fully serve as such damage-sharing tanks. " Nobody forces you to play a build that you dont like or dont understand ^^ or: why not to remove ALL defensive options to make it a 'FAIR' (equal to all) "dont get hit or be dead"? ;) You'll never make all options for defense really of 100% equal worth & work - thats a major part of the build diversity... and YES there need to be different difficulty "layers" regarding build effectiveness and playstyle. invited by timer @ 10.12.2011 -- deutsche Community: www.exiled.eu & ts.exiled.eu Last edited by Mr_Cee#0334 on Oct 22, 2015, 5:23:23 AM
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Poison Arrow is the Issue, not Ancestral Bond
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