Path of Exile 1 Gameplay Help and Discussion - Elemental resistens + damage reduction vs endurance charges. - Forum

Hi all. I'm doing something like "paladin" from my character, and i have i question. I have 75% Damage reduction and 75 Elemental resistens. - if i get more end. charges (they are incr. dmg reduction) / elemental res. - will it work for me, or i will have same 75%? p.s. playing as archer - i was able to get many frenzy charges and boost atk. speed without any limits. If end. charges doesn't work after 75% - it's fucking stupid... Dont need it, because my defence increasing my dmg. reduction wery good. Last edited by industria#0129 on Dec 7, 2011, 9:31:58 PM	Posted by industria#0129 on Dec 7, 2011, 9:31:25 PM Quote this Post
There is a cap on the maximum amount of resistances and physical damage reduction available to a character. By default, all these are capped at 75%. This includes any portion of said stats granted by charges. There used to be passive skills to increase the maximum value of your resistances, but I'm not sure if they're there in the current tree. Note that the estimate of physical damage reduction shown in the character screen i just that - an estimate (based on the average damage of an average monster of your level). The amount of physical damage reduction applied to a given hit from armour rating is dependent on how much damage the hit deals, so a crit from a hard-hitting monster may be getting notably less reduction than the estimate, thus allowing the additional reduction of your charges to help make up the slack.	Posted by Mark_GGG on Dec 7, 2011, 9:37:51 PM Grinding Gear Games Quote this Post
" Mark_GGG wrote: thus allowing the additional reduction of your charges to help make up the slack. Thx a lot! " Mark_GGG wrote: There used to be passive skills to increase the maximum value of your resistances, but I'm not sure if they're there in the current tree. found +5% to max elemental res (2%+3%) dmg. reduction isnt in current tree i think. Last edited by industria#0129 on Dec 7, 2011, 9:47:54 PM	Posted by industria#0129 on Dec 7, 2011, 9:43:23 PM Quote this Post
" Mark_GGG wrote: There is a cap on the maximum amount of resistances and physical damage reduction available to a character. By default, all these are capped at 75%. So let me get this straight... the Mechanics Thread is essentially completely wrong with its assessment of damage mitigation? I knew resistances were capped at 75% - 80%, obviously, but armour and evasion as well? " Malice wrote: Armour / Damage Reduction Damage Reduction reduces physical damage taken. Elemental damage and damage-over-time are not affected. The amount of damage reduction depends on the defender's armour total, and the attacker's attack damage: reduction = armour / (armour + 20damage) The fact that damage reduction scales with the amount of damage means it is difficult to know exactly how much damage is being reduced, however the maximum* effect seems to be capped at around 4-5% of total armour rating. There is no actual cap, other than diminishing returns. An easy to remember rule of thumb is that to achieve 50% damage reduction, you will need an armour rating equal to twenty times that of the damage being dealt. For 80% reduction, you'll need 80 times the amount of damage. For example, to achieve 50% damage reduction against a 100 damage hit, you'll need 2000 armour. Here are two graphical representations of the armour formula: Affect of X Armour on Damage Affect of Armour on X Damage Can I get some confirmation on this, Mark? Last edited by Lurker#7518 on Dec 8, 2011, 9:17:24 AM	Posted by Lurker#7518 on Dec 8, 2011, 9:16:55 AM Quote this Post
I'd also like to hear confirmation on that. Seems like Mark's statement is pretty clear though. I thought PDR was deliberately uncapped to allow for increased specialisation in armour for defence past the 75% limit without having to delve into evasion - with the drawback of diminishing returns and the fact that large damage packets reduce armour's effectiveness.	Posted by Malice#2426 on Dec 8, 2011, 10:22:18 AM Alpha Member Quote this Post
Yeah, unspecialized hybrid builds already have a pretty solid advantage in regards to overall mitigation values because of the individual diminishing returns. If there really is a 75% hard cap on PDR, then the best tank route would be pure evasion equipment with an endurance charge spec. A hard cap doesn't make much sense to me - it's like saying that some guy decked out to the point of being a walking fortress is still forced to take an arbitrary amount of damage from a bug bite, despite considerably gimping his DPS to achieve those defenses.	Posted by Lurker#7518 on Dec 8, 2011, 11:36:32 AM Quote this Post
" Lurker wrote: " Mark_GGG wrote: There is a cap on the maximum amount of resistances and physical damage reduction available to a character. By default, all these are capped at 75%. So let me get this straight... the Mechanics Thread is essentially completely wrong with its assessment of damage mitigation? I knew resistances were capped at 75% - 80%, obviously, but armour and evasion as well? " Malice wrote: Armour / Damage Reduction Damage Reduction reduces physical damage taken. Elemental damage and damage-over-time are not affected. The amount of damage reduction depends on the defender's armour total, and the attacker's attack damage: reduction = armour / (armour + 20damage) The fact that damage reduction scales with the amount of damage means it is difficult to know exactly how much damage is being reduced, however the maximum* effect seems to be capped at around 4-5% of total armour rating. There is no actual cap, other than diminishing returns. An easy to remember rule of thumb is that to achieve 50% damage reduction, you will need an armour rating equal to twenty times that of the damage being dealt. For 80% reduction, you'll need 80 times the amount of damage. For example, to achieve 50% damage reduction against a 100 damage hit, you'll need 2000 armour. Here are two graphical representations of the armour formula: Affect of X Armour on Damage Affect of Armour on X Damage Can I get some confirmation on this, Mark? The formula: reduction = armour / (armour + 20*damage) determines the percentage amount of physical damage reduction from your armour rating. Additional Physical damage reduction is then added to get the total physical damage reduction % (this is where charges come in - I don't think there's currently any other additional reduction in the game). Then the cap is applied, tthe base cap being 75%. I am not aware of any way to change this cap in the game at the moment. Evasion, since you mention it is capped in that chance to hit/chance to evade cannot fall outside the range 5% - 95%, with the exception of keystones which say you 'can't evade' or 'always hit' which avoid the roll altogether, thus making the chance 100%/0%.	Posted by Mark_GGG on Dec 8, 2011, 6:47:01 PM Grinding Gear Games Quote this Post
Thanks for clearing that up, Mark. Somewhat disappointing though, given that one of my tank-ish characters probably has over 30% wasted PDR with all of his endurance charges on. It would be nice to see armour mitigation (with 75% cap) factored in first, then have endurance charges further reduce whatever was leftover (without cap). This would allow endurance to be fully useful to people investing heavily into armour. Anyways, that leaves another ambiguity open, now that you've mentioned keystones. In a PvP scenario, provided one player has resolute technique (100% chance to hit), would that only circumvent the other player's evasion, or would it circumvent: Block Evasion Acrobatics (20% Avoidance Keystone) This makes the higher effective cap on evasion (95%) a bit more fair compared to armour (75%), given that such a keystone now exists. In a PvE scenario, such a cap hardly matters because of how difficult it would be to obtain enough evasion to go anywhere near the cap against a same-level enemy (I calculated something like 160k+ evasion for a level 58 enemy back in 0.9.3).	Posted by Lurker#7518 on Dec 8, 2011, 7:12:37 PM Quote this Post
resolute technique (always hit) avoids the enemy's evasion and dodge, which avoid getting hit. It has no effect on blocking, which is entirely separate to hitting - if you block then you were hit, but took no damage.	Posted by Mark_GGG on Dec 8, 2011, 7:30:43 PM Grinding Gear Games Quote this Post
personally this is something, i dont like about poe atm, is the way damage reduction is calculated. in my opinion a diminishing returns curve for armor rating gaining would be more apropriate in conjuction with a hard cap betwin 85-95% (probably upgradable trough the passives) this would simplify the way damage reduction apears in the stats as it would have a fixed value of reduction, and it would open a build path way for pure defensive chars, wich the current system might work for pvm, later on it will be catastrofic for pvp, damages to high for low damage reduction.	Posted by ziiion#1960 on Dec 8, 2011, 8:08:08 PM Quote this Post