Analysis of hybrid vs single stat armors at max level
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My first thought is that nodes could be added in the hybrid character's areas of the tree which increase two defenses. that might be to detrimental to letting other characters get through those areas and still be benefiting from the passives, though.
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" I hadn't considered this detail until someone else pointed it out. But it's a good point. Even if the hybrid armor is rescaled, the hybrid classes still live in passive skill tree that is unfriendly to them because there are no passive nodes that do two defenses. Certainly it would need to be balanced. But I think it's a very good idea overall. Also if those combo passive defense nodes are percentage based, as I think all of the armor passives already are, than naturally they would be worthless to someone who isn't planning to use hybrid armors. Sounds like it would pretty much balance itself to me. Speaking of combo nodes that gives me another thought. What about some hybrid nodes for base stats? Rather than having the highways in hybrid areas of the tree alternate, what's wrong with a combo stat (e.g. int+5 / dex+5) node? ----------------------------
Joined: September 28, 2011 Beta-Key: November 29, 2011 (Big Thanks to Literature) |
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"I don't believe that to be the case. My understanding is that as hybrid armours have half as much of each defense (roughly) as respective pure armours, they need the same percentage applied to both defenses to match an increase applied to a pure armour. To put it another way, "30% increased armour" used with a str armour piece is equivalent to "30% increased armour, 30% increased energy shield" on a str/int armour piece. That means that a theoretical passive granting "30% increased armour, 30% increased energy shield" in the templar area is in fact just as valuable to a marauder as a straight ""30% increased armour", and provides the same amount of bonus to him as to the templar (and same for the witch) while the templar is still only getting half as much bonus from the marauder and witch's pure defense increasing passives. The templar's passives in this case are just as good for the marauder as the maruader's passives, but the reverse is not true. So making such "dual increases" for hybrids means effectively making just as many more pure increases for any pure-stat character that decides to head to that part of the tree, which could be quite problematic to balance. | |
" Hummm . . . Good point. And even assuming a 30% means a 15%/15% that's no good either because that obviously is half as strong for a hybrid vs a non-hybrid. The passive tree side of this issue is much trickier than I initially realized. I'll have to think on that. Did you read my novel (a few replies up from here) about balancing the armor side of it? I imagine something similar is planned anyhow, but it's a detailed explanation of the whole thing. Worth a read. ---------------------------- Joined: September 28, 2011 Beta-Key: November 29, 2011 (Big Thanks to Literature) Last edited by DoctorZuber#7774 on Dec 7, 2011, 7:47:06 PM
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This could over-complicate reading the passive tree, but you could add a fixed number boost which scales as you level. Then you wouldn't necessarily need the hybrid versions.
edit: Ie. +10 armor (per 10 levels). or +5 energy shield (per 5 levels) Last edited by Britannicus#3214 on Dec 7, 2011, 8:07:04 PM
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" This is functionally identical to a percentage upgrade. It loses readability and gains nothing. ----------------------------
Joined: September 28, 2011 Beta-Key: November 29, 2011 (Big Thanks to Literature) |
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"It's not the same as a percentage upgrade as it's adding a base amount - the most significant difference being that a percentage increase to, say, energy shield will do nothing unless you already have some energy shield. just adding +energy shield will give you that much energy shield. If you have a passive for "+5 energy shield (per 5 levels)" then that passive grants just as much energy shield to a character with all pure-str armour as it does to a character with all pure-energy shield armour. This has a similar but different problem to the above idea in that it's equally good for other classes - "+5 energy shield (per 5 levels)" is just as good for a marauder as it is for a templar, except in the case the templar has some other percentage increases to energy shield to increase the base value. The passive issue is definitely a trickier one than the armour mods, but it's good to have all these people discussing different ideas. | |
" If you count the location of such nodes as investment/penalty for a specific character (scaled energy shield bonus placed in the witch area of the passive tree) then you don't necessarily have a balance problem. Last edited by Britannicus#3214 on Dec 7, 2011, 9:17:24 PM
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So basically with the percentage based combo armor nodes you're not worried that any one node would be overpowered, you're just worried that it's going to inflate the raw number of armor nodes available on the tree.
I really don't see where this has to be a problem. Just balance it the same way you are already balancing things in the passive tree. Balance it as necessary by adjusting the location of these nodes on the passive tree. Stealing armor nodes or any passive node for that matter from a neighboring class already comes with a price because of the size and shape of the passive tree. Just keep doing what you're already doing and adjust the size and shape of the passive tree as necessary. ----------------------------
Joined: September 28, 2011 Beta-Key: November 29, 2011 (Big Thanks to Literature) |
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" Okay, I admit I was a bit hasty in saying it's exactly the same. Obviously it's not since it's more of an additive modifier and rather than scaling up based on how much armor/evade/shield your character may have, it scales with your character level instead. I still don't like it. With the numbers you use for an example, it's way too weak for a high level character. If you adjust these numbers to compensate for that, it becomes way too powerful for a low level character, which is even worse. To make it scale properly you need to change the rate at which it scales. And armor numbers do not scale in a simple linear way. So even if you adjust the rate to something that does balance properly now you are failing because the necessary formula is no longer readable. None of that really sounds good to me. ----------------------------
Joined: September 28, 2011 Beta-Key: November 29, 2011 (Big Thanks to Literature) |
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