Bring back coc

"

eragon1111 wrote:

wand/bow/st coc compared to cyclone seems lacking. Ive did recently Hybrid CoC Wanderer, that should be somehow tankier than CoC Cyclone but its rly NOT.

Overall there seem to be a complete lack of good crit spells beside Discharge and for the way Discharge works Cyclone will be always best choice.

Cyclone provides free stun immunity meaning you can drop it from gear. Means you have free XX% multipler for attack speed to single targets.

Its just too (sorry) fucking good compared to any other coc option.

GGG fears that if they change crit chance for some spells ppl will dump the game content. And WHAT ABOUT THAT ? Who cares, if people have fun they will drop more cash in MTX shop. Leagues are either way dead after first month so this month could be at least more profitable.

Problems of ST/Wand/Bow coc:
- huge investment for little consistency
- almost zero of good spells with good effectiveness and crit chance
- area of effect - yes i know some spells can offscreen but few from group of monsters always stay alive
- stationary gameplay / where coc is always moving forward
- No free stun immunity
- shotgun nerf
- ... half of shots missing on single target ? GMP barrage or st miss half of the provs because of spreaded fire.

And many more.

GGG for a reason doesnt nerf CoC Cyclone Discharge - plenty of high cash supporters play this build. Dont want to fuck with them.

But bringing rest of the CoC to be in pair would be not a COC move .. :P

"

eragon1111 wrote:

wand/bow/st coc compared to cyclone seems lacking. Ive did recently Hybrid CoC Wanderer, that should be somehow tankier than CoC Cyclone but its rly NOT.

Overall there seem to be a complete lack of good crit spells beside Discharge and for the way Discharge works Cyclone will be always best choice.

Cyclone provides free stun immunity meaning you can drop it from gear. Means you have free XX% multipler for attack speed to single targets.

Its just too (sorry) fucking good compared to any other coc option.

GGG fears that if they change crit chance for some spells ppl will dump the game content. And WHAT ABOUT THAT ? Who cares, if people have fun they will drop more cash in MTX shop. Leagues are either way dead after first month so this month could be at least more profitable.

Problems of ST/Wand/Bow coc:
- huge investment for little consistency
- almost zero of good spells with good effectiveness and crit chance
- area of effect - yes i know some spells can offscreen but few from group of monsters always stay alive
- stationary gameplay / where coc is always moving forward
- No free stun immunity
- shotgun nerf
- ... half of shots missing on single target ? GMP barrage or st miss half of the provs because of spreaded fire.

And many more.

GGG for a reason doesnt nerf CoC Cyclone Discharge - plenty of high cash supporters play this build. Dont want to fuck with them.

But bringing rest of the CoC to be in pair would be not a COC move .. :P

"

Problems of ST/Wand/Bow coc:
- huge investment for little consistency

"

- almost zero of good spells with good effectiveness and crit chance

"

- area of effect - yes i know some spells can offscreen but few from group of monsters always stay alive

"

- stationary gameplay / where coc is always moving forward

"

- No free stun immunity

"

- shotgun nerf

"

- ... half of shots missing on single target ? GMP barrage or st miss half of the provs because of spreaded fire.

"

And many more.

"

Moosifer wrote:

"

eragon1111 wrote:

wand/bow/st coc compared to cyclone seems lacking. Ive did recently Hybrid CoC Wanderer, that should be somehow tankier than CoC Cyclone but its rly NOT.

Overall there seem to be a complete lack of good crit spells beside Discharge and for the way Discharge works Cyclone will be always best choice.

Cyclone provides free stun immunity meaning you can drop it from gear. Means you have free XX% multipler for attack speed to single targets.

Its just too (sorry) fucking good compared to any other coc option.

GGG fears that if they change crit chance for some spells ppl will dump the game content. And WHAT ABOUT THAT ? Who cares, if people have fun they will drop more cash in MTX shop. Leagues are either way dead after first month so this month could be at least more profitable.

Problems of ST/Wand/Bow coc:
- huge investment for little consistency
- almost zero of good spells with good effectiveness and crit chance
- area of effect - yes i know some spells can offscreen but few from group of monsters always stay alive
- stationary gameplay / where coc is always moving forward
- No free stun immunity
- shotgun nerf
- ... half of shots missing on single target ? GMP barrage or st miss half of the provs because of spreaded fire.

And many more.

GGG for a reason doesnt nerf CoC Cyclone Discharge - plenty of high cash supporters play this build. Dont want to fuck with them.

But bringing rest of the CoC to be in pair would be not a COC move .. :P

I've done a few CoC builds, cyclone is actually the one I dislike the most, although I haven't done a bow one just because they look terrible as the only decent bow for it is windripper.

Just from how you're talking you're chasing DPS rather than really using the build for what it's good at, cheap DPS that allows you to focus on EHP. I did basically an immune to damage build back in Rampage that could facetank uber atziri. I don't mean the facetank most people talk about where they dodge attacks, I mean stand in place, don't move, right click her.

I didn't like cyclone for it because cyclone is just annoying for map/trash clearing in general. It's a strong skill but I've always found it to be clunky to use, not really my style. My favorite CoC was ST, which really just a decent APS vagan dagger is all you need 5-10c. If you want to go want, just get either a fast one or if you really want to go defensive get one with really high crit and you get to save a ton of crit passives.

You don't need any DPS passives outside of enough to get max crit chance with the weapon, firing that many spells just does enough damage, everything on top is just trying to max the build out which is where the price comes in.

So to break it down.

"

Problems of ST/Wand/Bow coc:
- huge investment for little consistency

I don't see the huge investment. I've done these builds without malis, the ST uber build had armor life gloves because I wasn't immune to physical damage (legacy lightning coil (before it was legacy) and 3 end charges so still taking over 50% physical). The higher the crit on your weapon the less you need on gear or whatever. If you're talking about top tier weapons, well every build has that price. If you want a wand with +100% SD, 20% cast speed, 100% crit chance and multi, be prepared to pay a hefty amount, as a lot of other people want that too. If you want to talk about shit like lightning coil, again, universal EHP items are wanted by every build.

The damage output achieved with dirt cheap weapons is insane with CoC. 12 wands with +12% crit and IAS for under 10c, many for just 1c8 vagan 1.5 daggers for under 10c

I have this:

over 12% CRIT CHANCE wand and im not crit capped with 6 power charges and 50% points from tree invested into crit and pathing to crit nodes.

Name a non-summoner build that can get their end game weapon for 1c?

Almost any RF character

The dagger I used for uber btw, was Vagan 1.4 base, crit chance from alt, IAS from aug and 30% spell damage from regal. Could easily go without one of those mods and anyone who has done mild crafting knows I went cheap as fuck.

That was before 2.1 and before CoC got 50ms cap

"

- almost zero of good spells with good effectiveness and crit chance

Not even sure what this means. Ice spear and fireball are a great combo, ice spear has crazy synergy with the crit and fireball hits like a truck. And projectile skill will scale well with wand/bow CoC. Even non-projectile skills, I used arc for guaranteed leech in case fireball/ice spear was spread too wide and miss. Bladefall is so good you can probably just ignore it's an AOE and throw it on a projectile attack.

You are not able to sustain with 4% leech from warlords and gem using spells you have mentioned, complete bullcrap in 2.1

"

- area of effect - yes i know some spells can offscreen but few from group of monsters always stay alive

One of the signs I see you're chasing DPS rather than caring about average build or EHP. Are you really concerned about not offscreening enough trash? Have I been away that long that clearing what's on your screen isn't good enough anymore?

No, its not good enough because almost any decent clear speed build that requires similar investment clears faster. I have 10k EHP on my Hybrid Wanderer and i dont care about more. Mind that almost every piece of my gear is 1-2-10 ex+.

"

- stationary gameplay / where coc is always moving forward

Ya...just every other wand or bow character. It's not like cyclone has WB movement ability. Make fair comparisons dude.

And thats why cyclone is way better for coc than stationary wand/bow. Fair comparsions ? Wands till now dont have reliable instant movement skill. WTF?

"

- No free stun immunity

Sure there is, you're ranged, don't get hit, never stunned. Stun immunity for a melee attacker vs it for ranged attack is night and day. You can already manually dodge attacks, it's why the evasion area of the tree also has all the MS on the tree, you're suppose to use the mechanic along side your actual manual skills. With melee that's very difficult. So if you're comparing another melee CoC build to cyclone, you have a point. But melee CoC vs ranged CoC, this is a wipe. This is a player skill issue, not mechanics. If you can't play ranged safer than melee there's not much GGG can do to save you.

With 3k life and 7k ES my character gets stunned without Eye of Chayula (or something similar) like mad in high lvl maps, and EHP is its only defence, you have to leech back instantly to not get instagibbed.

"

- shotgun nerf

Again, universal change. No one is benefiting from this not existing. Sure discharge is strong, but so are large AOE fireballs so is a fuck lot of ice spears a second. Rather than doing large burst you're doing a ton of small hits.

BS again. Discharge has same proc cap as rest of the skills, and thx to higher crit chance and base dmg, with aproximetly even lower proc chance than 2 spells like fire ball and ice spear, you leech more EHP faster.

"

- ... half of shots missing on single target ? GMP barrage or st miss half of the provs because of spreaded fire.

Get higher EHP and stand closer or use the trash that spawns with all bosses more effectively.

Like i said for me 10k EHP is enough. And from 2.1 you have NO POSSIBILITY to hit any boss with all 5 balls. It doesnt work anymore. Shotgun nerf.

"

And many more.

Please go on.


- CoC Discharge is fine and was just ridiculous previously.
- 12% wand with every crit node on witch/shadow area is not enough to be crit capped ( even with 3 gems with 10% crit and ice golem) Sitting at 94.3%.
- Wands and bows dont have access to Vagan mod. Accuracy is decreasing with lvls so its a HUGE deal. Huge because it puts way more stress on gear required to run it. Example:

This is 5 ex helm. Without it im dropping to 80% accuracy.
- Flasks have been nerfed and its required to get 5 TIMES more crits to get same amount of charges.
- You have no idea what you are talking about. Outdated info from previous leagues never applies to major content changes/balance.


CoC has been crazy strong since it's introduction and everytime I've made one it's been basically game breakingly good. I'm seeing since I was away you can basically get immunity to physical damage, along with elemental damage like before, just all a little less consistent than previous versions and physical damage wasn't possible before. When theory crafting this build the only thing I could think of was CoC as nothing can match the damage output for such a small investment, allowing you to travel all over the tree, not requiring crazy expensive gear. Sorry man, if you're not seeing the strength of CoC it's all player related, it probably deserves a few more nerfs before it's in line with it's equals. That includes non-cyclone versions as well. Even in the current meta I'd probably favor ST or wands over cyclone+discharge as I personally don't really like discharge and the mechanics it takes to function properly (and the tremendous lag it causes).