Enfeeble

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Ouroboros226 wrote:

http://en.pathofexilewiki.com/wiki/Enfeeble

Enfeeble really only gets stronger at the accuracy department when improved? Wondering if this is a mistake on the PoE wiki or intended by the devs. Enfeeble is strong, but quality only having an effects on accuracy makes it totally worthless to improve in hardcore. As -accuracy suffers from the same as evasion on HC atm - too risky due to lethal burst damage when unlucky with RNG.

Imo the enfeeble quality improvement would be alot better even with only a -0.5% extra reduced damage (instead of accuracy) for a total of 44% damage reduction at quality rank 20. Unless this would be overpowered in your eyes dunno.

It also feels wrong that enfeeble is mandatory on brutus/kole on cruel/merciless to avoid being one-shotted as melee. But this is a design issue with those bosses, not enfeeble.

34% reduced damage also increases the effectiveness of your armor. Which can get pretty strong, as the more armor reduction you have the stornger it gets relative to what you would have been taking.

Honestly the only thing wrong with the accuracy reduction is that Evasion is balanced poorly overall. If you have a lot of evasion that means you take big hits when you take them because damage is balanced assuming you have actual DR and not avoidance. OF course if you have a decent chunk of evasion enfeeble very quickly becomes near immunity to attacks.

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Autocthon wrote:

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Ouroboros226 wrote:

http://en.pathofexilewiki.com/wiki/Enfeeble

Enfeeble really only gets stronger at the accuracy department when improved? Wondering if this is a mistake on the PoE wiki or intended by the devs. Enfeeble is strong, but quality only having an effects on accuracy makes it totally worthless to improve in hardcore. As -accuracy suffers from the same as evasion on HC atm - too risky due to lethal burst damage when unlucky with RNG.

Imo the enfeeble quality improvement would be alot better even with only a -0.5% extra reduced damage (instead of accuracy) for a total of 44% damage reduction at quality rank 20. Unless this would be overpowered in your eyes dunno.

It also feels wrong that enfeeble is mandatory on brutus/kole on cruel/merciless to avoid being one-shotted as melee. But this is a design issue with those bosses, not enfeeble.

34% reduced damage also increases the effectiveness of your armor. Which can get pretty strong, as the more armor reduction you have the stornger it gets relative to what you would have been taking.

Honestly the only thing wrong with the accuracy reduction is that Evasion is balanced poorly overall. If you have a lot of evasion that means you take big hits when you take them because damage is balanced assuming you have actual DR and not avoidance. OF course if you have a decent chunk of evasion enfeeble very quickly becomes near immunity to attacks.

Hmm I tend to agree :S

If you have no armor though 34% reduced dmage will always be exactly 34% reduced damage?

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Ouroboros226 wrote:

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Autocthon wrote:

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Ouroboros226 wrote:

http://en.pathofexilewiki.com/wiki/Enfeeble

Enfeeble really only gets stronger at the accuracy department when improved? Wondering if this is a mistake on the PoE wiki or intended by the devs. Enfeeble is strong, but quality only having an effects on accuracy makes it totally worthless to improve in hardcore. As -accuracy suffers from the same as evasion on HC atm - too risky due to lethal burst damage when unlucky with RNG.

Imo the enfeeble quality improvement would be alot better even with only a -0.5% extra reduced damage (instead of accuracy) for a total of 44% damage reduction at quality rank 20. Unless this would be overpowered in your eyes dunno.

It also feels wrong that enfeeble is mandatory on brutus/kole on cruel/merciless to avoid being one-shotted as melee. But this is a design issue with those bosses, not enfeeble.

34% reduced damage also increases the effectiveness of your armor. Which can get pretty strong, as the more armor reduction you have the stornger it gets relative to what you would have been taking.

Honestly the only thing wrong with the accuracy reduction is that Evasion is balanced poorly overall. If you have a lot of evasion that means you take big hits when you take them because damage is balanced assuming you have actual DR and not avoidance. OF course if you have a decent chunk of evasion enfeeble very quickly becomes near immunity to attacks.

Hmm I tend to agree :S

If you have no armor though 34% reduced dmage will always be exactly 34% reduced damage?

YEs with 0 armor it is just 34% reduced damage. Which is still a non-trivial increase in survivability of course. +50% eHP is huge.

What I would do is make a pass on EV and melee builds overall then if -Acc still feels weak add -AS to enfeeble based on quality. That allows additional defenses for melee without doubling the effectiveness of your armor (thats what 44% reduced damage would be doing effectively, as is it increases DR from armor by 50% already)

Reduced accuracy makes a huge difference to Evasion-based characters. It's like giving yourself more than 50% more Evasion. Given that's on top of the reduced damage and crit-nerfing effects that everyone benefits from, it's a pretty strong curse.

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Incompetent wrote:

Reduced accuracy makes a huge difference to Evasion-based characters. It's like giving yourself more than 50% more Evasion. Given that's on top of the reduced damage and crit-nerfing effects that everyone benefits from, it's a pretty strong curse.

Right now my enfeeble pumps me up from 45% evasion to about 55% evasion. That's with no quality and with only 28% reduced accuracy.

-Acc is massive on evasion builds XD

I want to make an enfeeble duelist just to watch people go crazy when I turn into super tank with enfeeble up.

I've found this curse to be the best to help survive as an evasion character. It's the only way to get damage/crit reduction if you're running acrobatics (can't granite), against things that bypass evasion rolls and can near one shoot you, especially map bosses.

Unfortunately this gem requires insane intelligence to level. If you're a Ranger/Duelist/Marauder, getting about 80-100 int is usually the norm without going out of your way (not counting gear), so leveling this gem past lvl 8-9 is pretty hard for most builds. It's still useful at that low level, but it'd be cool if the characters who need the most burst damage mitigation (dex evaders) could make the most out of this gem.

That's why I ask, is there any chance the requirements could be changed to hybrid int/dex or int/str? There's enough pure int curses out there anyways, and making this defensive curse easier to use at higher levels would help with end game mob damage and give more survivability options to everyone.

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Thalandor wrote:

I've found this curse to be the best to help survive as an evasion character. It's the only way to get damage/crit reduction if you're running acrobatics (can't granite), against things that bypass evasion rolls and can near one shoot you, especially map bosses.

Unfortunately this gem requires insane intelligence to level. If you're a Ranger/Duelist/Marauder, getting about 80-100 int is usually the norm without going out of your way (not counting gear), so leveling this gem past lvl 8-9 is pretty hard for most builds. It's still useful at that low level, but it'd be cool if the characters who need the most burst damage mitigation (dex evaders) could make the most out of this gem.

That's why I ask, is there any chance the requirements could be changed to hybrid int/dex or int/str? There's enough pure int curses out there anyways, and making this defensive curse easier to use at higher levels would help with end game mob damage and give more survivability options to everyone.

Agreed

Dunno if it's more appropriate to post this here or in the spelling mistakes/typos thread. So I'm posting here first. The description for Enfeeble says, "Curses all targets in an area, making their attacks less effective." but I've read in this thread:

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HealthRex wrote:

Does Enfeeble also work against spell damage and spell crits? Or is it purely against physical attacks?

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Vipermagi wrote:

It puts a penalty on the all-encompassing Damage. It works against basically everything.

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HealthRex wrote:

So spell crits are reduced too? What about chaos damage?

Also, Enfeeble reduces Accuracy which only applies to physical attacks, right?

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Vipermagi wrote:

Yes, yes, and correct respectively (although Attacks aren't strictly Physical).

If it truly reduces spell damage, that text is misleading.

The quality bonus on this gem is absolutely ridiculous when it comes to Evasion characters. I really think it should be toned down substantially, or changed to a modest bonus to damage reduction instead (which benefits everyone who uses Enfeeble, not just high-Evasion builds). I'll give some numbers to explain what I mean.

Basically, reducing monster accuracy acts like a multiplier on the player's Evasion Rating vs cursed monsters. If I take monster accuracy and multiply it by x, that's basically the same as multiplying my Evasion by x^{-1.25} (it's like dividing (Evasion/4)^{0.8} by x).

Suppose I have a level 20 Enfeeble with zero quality. That multiplies monster accuracy by 0.61 (that's '39% reduced Accuracy'), which is equivalent to multiplying my Evasion by about 1.85. So it's like having '85% more Evasion'.

Now let's try with a level 20 Enfeeble with 20 quality. This multiplies monster accuracy by 0.31, which is equivalent to multiplying my Evasion by about 4.32. So now we're talking about '332% more Evasion'.


Summary: '85% more Evasion' vs '332% more Evasion'. Is it really sensible for quality alone to make this kind of difference?

(Incidentally, the numbers don't look any more balanced if you stop levelling Enfeeble because of the Int requirements, e.g. Q0 L5 gives '41% more Evasion', whereas Q20 L5 gives '164% more Evasion'.)